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Thread: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

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    Default Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    Okay this is the ultimate dilemma for me. Just to give you some background. I'm a young black professional, who dresses like one and have been going to strip clubs for over 10 years.

    So I walk in this club. There for about 15 minutes drinking like I get paid by the ounce and the first dancer who comes by to sit next to me is white and she comes with the worst opening line for me. "Do you like white girls?" I have never heard this line before and at the time, I said "no, not really" (when I watched her walk up, all I could think is how could I get rid of her). To set the record straight, I take pride in being an equal opportunity employer. However, this dancer had to be on her last days of stripping. I thought I was being punked, but realized I'm not a celebrity. I actually think she was part of the cleaning crew and came in early to strip. Okay, Okay beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so these are just my opinions.

    Back to the dilemma, I assumed if I said yes, I wouldn't be able to get rid of her. So I sent her away with her thinking I didn't like white girls. That totally threw me off for the entire night. I actually told someone I didn't like them because of their skin color. It has been bothering me. I know some people are like that but I don't want to be counted as one of those people. Someone told me I should have said, "Yes, but you are not my type." What should I have done?

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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    I really cant answer from a race or gender position, seeing as how I'm a (pale) mixed female... BUT! I was a straight up customer for long enough to have an opinion on this. I wouldn't have answered it in a yes or no manner. Honestly? I would have been insulted by the question. To look at someone and feel the need to ask? Really.... I would have told her that I was insulted by the question, and dismiss her based on it... but that's just me.


    "Hun, skin color isn't what I base my choices on, and I'm insulted that you would ask me something like that. Bye."

    That is what I would have said. But that's just me.
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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    You had a knee-jerk reaction. Anchor strippers like that would use ANY excuse to plant themselves at your table and ruin your night. Its no big deal, doesn't make you racist, and it was a little white lie. I've had customers of all races, even white boys, tell me they aren't into white dancers. That's fine, its your buffet, you dont have to try the borsht, lol!

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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    considering how many many many many many customers are more than happy to bust out with how they don't like (insert non-white ethnicity here) and considering how many many many many many people are willing to DEFEND them doing it as 'unalterable preference', you should not sweat it too much.

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    God/dess Casual Observer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    There for about 15 minutes drinking like I get paid by the ounce and the first dancer who comes by to sit next to me is white and she comes with the worst opening line for me. "Do you like white girls?"
    Agreed that it's a poor approach; a dancer should always assume that a target customer will be interested in her, and exude that confidence. Clearly, she didn't have that.

    However, this dancer had to be on her last days of stripping. I thought I was being punked, but realized I'm not a celebrity. I actually think she was part of the cleaning crew and came in early to strip. Okay, Okay beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so these are just my opinions.
    This trend of quality be damned and hiring anything with a pulse is predominantly why the industry is dying a slow, cancerous death. It's not exclusive to your area, and it's not poor taste to acknowledge that.

    I actually told someone I didn't like them because of their skin color. It has been bothering me. I know some people are like that but I don't want to be counted as one of those people. Someone told me I should have said, "Yes, but you are not my type." What should I have done?
    I wouldn't worry too much about that for a couple reasons:

    --You're in a strip club as a customer; the only thing that matters is your personal preferences, irrespective of what anyone else thinks, including the talent at the club.

    --Separately, you're black, so you get a pass on the issue of racial preferences; perhaps you didn't get the memo, but apparently it's only white folks that can't express such opinions without being castigated.

    It's not a crime to have personal preferences, so don't apologize for having them. Next time, a simple (and if necessary, persistent) "No, thank you," will generally suffice with all but the most egregiously rude dancers.
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    Kaylinn
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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    I think that her question was out of line to begin with, but I dont feel your response was. I have been told by black guys that they perfer black women, and I have been told by asian men that they perfer asian women. I have also been told by black men that they perfer white women, just the same as beign told that a white guy perfers a blonde, or brunette, or whatever. Same as a guy perfering tall vs short, fat vs. skinny....In a strip club, preference is given to looks, and the color of your skin will affect your attractivness in some people's eyes. Everyone likes somethign different.

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    Senior Member WoodyLV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    well i applaud you for remaining cool and collected. that certainly was an odd way of approaching someone. i wouldnt worry about it. with that line, im sure shes gotten much much worse responses.

    .

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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    Okay - honestly, I think it would be a little off if she sat down and said "Hi" and you said "Look, I don't like white girls." This scenario, no big deal.

    However - practical issue; she will likely tell other girls that you only like black girls (which is probably what she would assume if you're black). If you do only like black girls I assume that is not a problem. If you might like to be approached by maybe an Asian, East Indian or Caucasian girl, you might be narrowing your options. Next time you might go with a more generic shut down.
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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    If you really want to get rid of the image that you don't like white girls, look around and spot several from whom you DO want dances. Then, ask the waitress, the bartender, or the DJ to give a message to one of them that you want a lapdance, enjoy it, and tip well. It shouldn't take long before the dancers know you are interested. And, if the one dancer approaches you again, just tell her, "No, thanks."

    I'm white, and I know two black girls at one club to whom I've said, "No, thanks," but there is another black girl there who is my first choice any night she is dancing.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    I think you're overthinking it. That girl doesn't give a damn about your ethnic preferences - she was only interested in whether you were interested in buying a dance from her. She took the easiest route to getting an answer, and you took the easiest route to moving her along. Seems perfectly fine to me.


    But to put it in another perspective: Some people aren't attracted to a certain hair color, height, weight, bra size, whatever. Skin color is no different in that regard. So for you to say you aren't attracted to white girls is PERFECTLY ok. Just like it's PERFECTLY ok for me to say I'm not attracted to white guys

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Senior Member GuyPOV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    Thanks everyone for your responses. It just bothered me because I have never been in that situation. I got back on the wagon. It doesn't take long with me.

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    Lola Rose
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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    this thread made me think...

    b/c 30+ decently dressed black men are one of the first types of custy i will go to.
    Asian men are 2nd....
    white men of the same age/dree are 3rd


    so my top 3 custy choices, with the same type of logic, is racist. but i don't think so..... it's marketing on my part, and easy out on yours.

    you learned something you're not comfortable with, and will grow from it. in the end, that' all that matters.

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    CarGuy
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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    Don't sweat it. I am a professional W/male...and I spend a lot at the club. This is how the race scenario usually goes...

    Me sitting, waiting to go to VIP with Miss M.

    Unattractice, large Black dancer comes up....."you wanna dance?"
    Besides breaking GenWars rule 12 I think...this dancer is not my type..

    I reply: " Sorry, but I just got here...or Sorry, I am waiting for some one.."

    Her response..." So, you don't like black girls?"


    What I would like to say is "No, I don't like pushy large out of shape women in general" But I am not like that.


    I like em all if they float my boat.


    The only thing you did wrong was tell her you didn't like white girls....and by doing that, she probably went back and bitched about it in the dressing room which could have ruined your approachability. However, the more confident, white dancer in the dressing room could have used it as an opportunity to show up the girl who asked you the silly question.

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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuyPOV View Post
    So I walk in this club. There for about 15 minutes drinking like I get paid by the ounce and the first dancer who comes by to sit next to me is white and she comes with the worst opening line for me. "Do you like white girls?" I have never heard this line before and at the time, I said "no, not really" (when I watched her walk up, all I could think is how could I get rid of her). Okay, Okay beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so these are just my opinions.
    Don't be angry at the question, and definitely don't guilt yourself into buying for charity. There are two bad things that happen in strip clubs, 1) when you take what you want. (I.E. No compensation or against the dancer's will) and 2) when you get taken for what you DON'T want.

    Maintain control. Bridges can be burned here. There are no shortage of strippers. She asked a high risk question, she has no right, and probably isn't, to take your refusal harshly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    This trend of quality be damned and hiring anything with a pulse is predominantly why the industry is dying a slow, cancerous death. It's not exclusive to your area, and it's not poor taste to acknowledge that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    --You're in a strip club as a customer; the only thing that matters is your personal preferences, irrespective of what anyone else thinks, including the talent at the club.

    --Separately, you're black, so you get a pass on the issue of racial preferences; perhaps you didn't get the memo, but apparently it's only white folks that can't express such opinions without being castigated.
    AND to build off what he said, YOU get approached. He and I where in a club with money to blow that we ended up giving the waitress that flirted with us, and 2 champagne rooms that totally don't count. Because *I* was in neither! But the whole time I stood out there, not a single approach!

    But I walked by a bunch of black guys to tip a dancer, I walked like an egyptian doing it for fun, and a group of black guys went out of their way to trip me, and when I recovered quickly, one said "Crackah has balance" or something. *sigh*

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette View Post
    I think you're overthinking it. That girl doesn't give a damn about your ethnic preferences - she was only interested in whether you were interested in buying a dance from her. She took the easiest route to getting an answer, and you took the easiest route to moving her along. Seems perfectly fine to me.
    Agreed. Not my type of dancer, but not a bad approach either.


    Quote Originally Posted by CarGuy View Post
    I like em all if they float my boat.
    Tell me about it.
    People are not ruled by their memories.

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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    reply: " Sorry, but I just got here...or Sorry, I am waiting for some one.."

    Her response..." So, you don't like black girls?"
    This same thing happened to us this past weekend, a group of guys sitting at a table when a woman who has no shame( very overweight, and just nasty in general) comes up and asks "want a Dance?” No hi, how are you nothing just right to the point. My friend says no thank you to which she replies you don’t like me be because I’m Puerto Rican. Well it starts a war of words they with each barb get progressively nastier, this goes on for like 30 minutes, and all I could think was if she put as much time into her sales pitch as she did into arguing why she didn’t get the dance she might actually make some money

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    Senior Member sleepyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    Quote Originally Posted by CarGuy View Post
    Her response..." So, you don't like black girls?"


    What I would like to say is "No, I don't like pushy large out of shape women in general" But I am not like that.
    awsome. haha

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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    I have had black customers tell me to my face that they aren't into white girls. In their defense, they all bought dances from black girls working that shift.

    I don't take it personal any more than I take it personal if someone doesn't like the music of Elvis Presley. It is about preference, not about being racist. We have just had the language of racism so pounded into our heads as being a horrible way of communicating that it is actually an impediment to real communication in this case.

    It is a sad day when a customer chooses his dancer based on political correctness (or the inverse, racist ideas), not based on what he finds pleasurable.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Senior Member GuyPOV's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    It is about preference, not about being racist. We have just had the language of racism so pounded into our heads as being a horrible way of communicating that it is actually an impediment to real communication in this case.

    It is a sad day when a customer chooses his dancer based on political correctness (or the inverse, racist ideas), not based on what he finds pleasurable.
    When does preference stop and racism start? If they were to make a movie about Elvis, they would need to get a white man. If they were to make a movie about James Brown, they would need to get a black man. If they were to make a movie about a female stripper, they would need to get a good looking woman. If you prefer her to be a certain skin color, than what is that?

    Just because racism is negative doesn't mean we should hide it behind preferences.

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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    ^Why does preference have to be racist?? Using your logic, you could call me racist because I am not attracted to white men. But since I'm white, would that change your opinion of me? I don't think that makes alot of sense. The are so many things that determine attraction, whether someone is racist or not is a TINY part of it.

    I agree that sometimes people may prefer a certain type *because* they are racist. But having a preference does NOT mean you are racist or that you're "hiding" anything. I agree with Paris that we've been drilled so much on the racist thing that we often find it hard to distinquish between that and simple attraction.

    As for me, I tend to go for latin or black customers first, because that's what I generally do best with. I'm not offended if they're not interested because I'm white; maybe they're racist and maybe they're not, but I chalk it up to simple (un)attraction and move on. I think alot of people just need to remove the chips from their shoulders; likewise, many need to remove the blinders!


    But at the end of the day, why can't we just have our preferences and let that be that? sheesh

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Senior Member noctina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    hey, i worked in detroit where half of the dancers were black and sometimes EVERY GUY in the club was black...

    i'm as white as they come, but i still approached black guys and talked to them like normal. i assumed that they would like me and i completely ignored the race issue. i think it was tacky for her to ask you if you're into white girls. i don't think your answer was out of line, i think she was out of line.

    i don't think it has anything to do with racism, but people do tend to be attracted to their own race in most cases. i hardly ever ended up giving dances to black guys.. i usually just talked with them for a while and then they said NO. they just weren't attracted to me and that's understandable because i'm not attracted to black guys either! they always chose to get dances from the black dancers who did all the booty shaking. i tend to sell most of my dances to older white men because my style appeals to them. and i don't see a lot of older white men getting dances from the bootylicious black girls... they usually go for girls like me or the blondes. it's not racism, it's just that guys don't wanna dance from a girl who's not their style.

    i don't think it was wrong for you to tell her you don't like white girls. i think your response was almost better than "yes, but you're not my type" because she might have taken that as you calling her ugly, which would be more offensive than her just thinking you're racist (which she probably didn't think at all!). more importantly, your response was efficient in getting her to go away, so no harm done.
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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    I dunno - I think there is something weird about "not being attracted to" a certain race. Like - I don't think you ought to be socially obligated to sleep with ANYONE you don't want to, regardless of the reason, but I still think there is something a little weird about declaring an entire race "unattractive" to you; and I think maybe there is more of a latent social agenda there then some people might be willing to admit or examine.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Featured Member AkashaM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    I think the dancer put you in a shitty position, GPOV...its almost like she tried to make you feel guilty or something. who asks a dumb ass question like that anyways? (not you GuyPOV, but that dumb ass dancer) "do you like white girls?" sheesh....

    "do you like nice titties?" thats the question, heheh.

    but i do think its generally rude to say to someone, "im not interested because you're _____" in any situation where someone wants to start a conversation. but its equally tacky to ask if you, "like white women (or whatever)." that dancer is just asking to get shut down or insulted---who needs validation from customers (or any stranger) anyways?

    oh and...

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    --Separately, you're black, so you get a pass on the issue of racial preferences; perhaps you didn't get the memo, but apparently it's only white folks that can't express such opinions without being castigated
    actually CO, not true at all. but thats a whole different thread, haha.
    Last edited by AkashaM; 02-24-2007 at 04:46 PM.
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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    I don't know Jenny, if someone just likes the appearance of darker skin (or paler, whatever) that's not a race thing to me, just an appearance thing.

    I do not like the appearance of fair skin and/or hair on men - it's just not physically attractive to me. I DO like the appearance of darker skin and hair on men. So for expediency, I simply say "I am not attracted to white men" - much simpler than always having to say "I do not like the appearance of fair skin and/or hair on men". I ask again, does that make me racist? I think not.

    I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt when they say they are not attracted to a certain race. First because I understand it can simply be an appearance thing, and second because frankly, I find it annoying at best to assume someone is racist based on their sexual preferences.

    As I always say, the "issues" of race will always be a problem as long as people refuse to simply let it go. As soon as people can let it go, which includes not accusing others of being racist, we will all be much happier.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    but there are a lot of 'white' ethnicities where the men have dark skin and hair. likewise, what is classed as 'black' in america is 'white' or 'mixed' or 'latin', etc in many other parts of the world. a lot of the guys who aren't attracted to this race or that would in fact be attracted to members of that race and likely have been, except they have, well, narrow and misleading idea of what constitutes a given race. and this is because race is so socially constructed, but in ways that are not clear-cut.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: Get your racing shoes on. It’s time for racism talk.

    I find many italian-american or italian men attractive. Many folks would call them white, but in my mind they are a different ethnicity than "white" (I would call them latin, since their heritage is from one of the latin countries) - I don't see those various so-called white ethnicites as falling under a larger "white" race umbrella. I view them as different and separate. Most white men aren't dark enough for my taste. Those of latin descent (which can be alot of things) usually ARE.

    Agreed that black americans are generally what folks in other parts of the world would call mixed (rightly so). I guess I should say I like mixed-race too. Because I sure do. Basically, from a purely physical standpoint I totally prefer darker skin and hair, and there are certain facial features I like too, which are more common with black, latin and many mixed ethnicities.

    But this is getting away from my point: that simple attraction does NOT necessarily mean someone is racist or not - to think so is very narrow-minded IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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