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Thread: Helping Someone in Legal Trouble

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    Helping Someone in Legal Trouble

    Although I read it every day, I don't often post on this site (especially on topics of any real importance)--but I know that there are many on this forum who give clear-headed, non-judgmental advice.

    Right now I'm feeling overwhelmed and I don't know what to do. Someone dear to me is facing either several months in prison and three years' hard parole for a felony, or two consecutive 8 month sentences if he pleads to two misdemeanors.

    I've spoken with the D.A.'s office in the past in regard to the case; I've also met with the lawyer--but not since this offer was tabled.

    The lawyer is currently out on vacation until next week. I'm fairly certain the Assistant D.A. would meet with me, but I have no idea what to say or if there is anything at all else that can be done.

    Please, if you have any advice, no matter how small. I don't know where to turn.

  2. #2
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Helping Someone in Legal Trouble

    If your friend has someone who will vouch for his or her good character, the assistant DA should know that. Go ahead and meet with him.

    Put yourself in the DA's shoes - one who takes the job seriously. You see hundreds of persons every year, all accused of crimes. The overwhelming majority are guilty of what they're charged with. Your job is to make society safer from them. So whether that involves probation, or soft incarceration or hard jail time, you have to try to make the best decision for society.

    But there are so many of them. Even if you want to take time with each one, you can't. You end up processing by the numbers. So it's the ones who stand out in some way that get your attention.

    So here comes one particular defendant, and there's a good friend who wants to tell you why this one should get a break, why this one is special, why this one has such good character for you to consider.

    It might mean nothing, or it might mean something. You can't hurt your friend's cause by vouching for him or her. You just might help. It's worth a shot. Write down the major points you want to bring up, or do up a letter, but when you speak, speak from the heart.

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    Default Re: Helping Someone in Legal Trouble

    I agree with Jay on the vouch for good character but the one doing the vouching needs to be in good standing as a citizen of the community otherwise it will backfire really bad . I dont know you or your background but I thought I would mention that - no offense .

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    Default Re: Helping Someone in Legal Trouble

    Thank you for your advice, Jay Zeno. When I gave a statement as a witness in the case, I also spoke to his good character. I am also working on a letter, and will ask others to write also.

    CuriousJ, I understand where you're coming from, and I'm an upstanding citizen.

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    Featured Member WiseGuy_TX's Avatar
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    Default Re: Helping Someone in Legal Trouble

    ...what ever you do, wait until his lawyer is back and inform him before you do it. Your friends lawyer does'nt "unknowingly" need any well intentioned surprises that could backfire.
    "Peter, did you take Stewie to a strip-club? He smells like sweat and fear." - Lois and Stewie (Family Guy) ... "Through early morning fog I see, Visions of the things to be, The pains that are withheld for me, I realize and I can see..."

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    Veteran Member datchapin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Helping Someone in Legal Trouble

    Sounds like he's facing type A misdemeanors from the time you mentioned. You don't really state any details of the case, but if you can get that time served in county or I think federal. You get 2 for 1 in county, plus the backlog time if he's still arrested, but if I remember correctly it's 3 for one in federal, stay away from state time. Also stay away from parole if at all possible. Federal they'll give you time and then once a portion is served you can make parole. However parole/probation are both traps and can be really draining. I know it's hard whatever you're going through, but the best thing is to do the time and forget about it once they're free. Another question would be if the two charges happened at the same time. If so you could plea bargain the harder sentence and get the second charge dropped. It's harder if he was arrested on separate occasions though. Another thing, if your dealing with a court ordered lawyer dump him if you can and get a paid lawyer, unless you feel the court appointed lawyer is sincere, but that's rare. Rarely does a free lawyer ever really help. Okay, another thing is make sure you get the history of the arresting officers and a copy of the arrest report and then get the story from your dear one. Any discrepancies or mistakes in the report can lead to the dismissal of the case. Probable cause is also a big issue so make sure you investigate every detail. If you do get a paid lawyer make sure the line of communication is open between both of you, but also open up lines of communications with whoever their paralegal is as they do alot of the dirty work as well. One last thing if at all possible try to avoid a jury, I know it sounds crucial, but sometimes being judged by your peers can be worse than by the judge and the process is extremely draining.
    The more I see, the less I know, the more I like to let it go! - RHCP

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    Default Re: Helping Someone in Legal Trouble

    Thank you, WiseGuy_TX. I will definitely run anything by the lawyer first.

    datchapin, you are right--the court appointed counsel was useless. When we were finally able to get her on the phone (she would not return calls), she was verbally abusive. We retained a paid lawyer early on. Both charges stem from one incident. I don't want to get into details here, but I can PM you.

    Why do you advise to avoid parole?

  8. #8
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: Helping Someone in Legal Trouble

    It may vary between states. You, datcha and I are in three different states.

    Parole, at least here, is usually time out in the community that you do after you're incarcerated. Probation is supervised time that you do instead of prison.

    If your friend has trouble staying out of trouble, probation indeed can be a trap. You're out on probation, you get in trouble, even like a driving under the influence, and they'll revoke the probation to put you in jail for the first offense, and they'll be nasty on adding time for the second offense, since you've proved you can't be good.

    Probation is more designed for people who found themselves in trouble and can learn their lesson. Editorial: The way we've worked it, though, is we ease people into hard time for twice the offenses instead of showing them the hard time for the first one and letting them move past it.

    Going through the other lawyer is good. The only caution I have about doing that is he (or she) may want to take some control over the interview. Lawyers don't like wild cards - they want to know what's going on at all times. This can detract from your apparent sincerity. Still, yes, it'd be good to let him know you're going.

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    Veteran Member casaubon1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Helping Someone in Legal Trouble

    This is not my area of law, but a couple of observations for what they are worth --

    First, time: It doesn't sound like there is "next day" urgency here. The ADA has tabled an offer at a time when your counsel not available, so he or she should be willing to wait until you have a chance to consult.

    Second, before setting up a meeting I would think you would want a clear idea of what the meeting is supposed to accomplish. I would ask your lawyer if there a reasonable outcome for a plea deal that is better than the current offer? If so, what would it take to get there? Is there a reason to believe that additional information about mitigating circumstances, character witnesses, etc. would make a difference?

    Is there a weakness in the government's case that the ADA may be underestimating? (They are busy, as JZ noted) If so, is there a chance to point that out, and persuade them that the weakness is significant enough that they should settle for a plea to a lesser sentence?

    A good first step might be to sit with the lawyer, review the offer, and ask some of these questions. That hopefully will lead to a strategy that will answer your question whether you should meet with the DA's office.

    Good luck!

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    Default Re: Helping Someone in Legal Trouble

    Jay Zeno--thank you for explaining about parole. All of this is new to me, and even the processing the basics is somewhat overwhelming.

    casaubon1, we will definitely bring these points up with the lawyer when we meet. I am forwarding your message to my friend. We would like to avoid a trial, so I'm not sure if that will limit how we are able to approach this.

    Thank you again to those who've responded. Please, if anyone can weigh in...

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Helping Someone in Legal Trouble

    Sienna if this case is in an Upstate NY jurisdiction (per you siggie) then I can give you a few things to think about ...

    A. if the court or DA become aware that you are a 'stripper', then anything you say on behalf of your friend is likely to be interpreted as a self-serving lie. Thank you Anna Nicole Smith, Duke rape case dancer, Kobe Bryant lawsuit lady etc. With upstate NY courts and jury members usually having a 'conservative' bent, you're better off avoiding all communication with the DA / court because odds are it would at best muddy the issue and at worse reinforce the DA's case against your friend

    B. Upstate NY Jails are NOT overcrowded, despite some influx of New York City felons to upstate prisons. Thus unlike a NY City case (or anywhere else that jails are overcrowded), the DA is not faced with a dilemma of locking up one defendant and filling a jail cell that might be better used to lock up a different defendent who has committed more serious crimes. Upstate DA's and judges are less motivated to plea bargain. Thus if your friend has secured a plea bargain deal that he can live with, it's worth serious consideration vs going to trial, being found guilty, and winding up with a much longer jail term.

    C. in Upstate NY, probation isn't terribly well enforced. However, the others are correct that going the probation route does open the door for any other infraction bringing a ton of bricks down on your friend's head.

    D. in terms of future consequences of criminal record, two misdemeanors 'weighs' far less than one felony in New York at least. By copping pleas, though, your friend locks the door on any future expungement proceedings. However, it's doubtful that a successful expungement case could be brought to 'erase' a single felony charge either.

    E. upstate NY is also big on 'three time losers' ... such that if your friend were to cop pleas to two misdemeanors it is guaranteed that any third offense would bring down three tons of bricks on your friend's head. It's actually quite likely that this could occur while your friend is incarcerated, due to some sort of prison incident. From that standpoint, the single felony would actually be less risky.

    F. Upstate NY routinely mixes inmates charged with felonies and inmates charged with misdemeanors. There is a chance that the two misdemeanor route would get your friend into a minimum security facility, whereas the single felony probably would not. However, it's just as probable that your friend would wind up being incarcerated right along with exported New York City felons.

    Note : before I started featuring I worked as a respiratory therapist in area hospitals that treated prisoners. I also have a couple of relatives who work in the NY prison system (on the unlocked side of the bars)

    Last comment ... the upstate NY court system is very 'good ol boy' oriented. If you know what jurisdiction the case will be heard in, spending extra money to hire the RIGHT lawyer can be worth it's weight in gold. I've had great luck with one particular upstate attorney ... whose father happens to be a sitting judge on the NY supreme court ! Needless to say, very few cases involving this one particular upstate attorney ever get appealed, DA's who dream of a future career as a judge don't seem to argue too hard in cases against this particular attorney, and lower court judges who dream of becoming higher court judges seem to make a concerted effort to have their cases go in favor of this one particular upstate attorney whenever possible as well LOL !


    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 02-22-2007 at 10:35 AM.

  12. #12
    Veteran Member datchapin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Helping Someone in Legal Trouble

    Oh snap you're in TX. For real you wanna know why it's a trap. Well, here goes. Your dear one's livelyhood is no longer gonna reside in his hands, it'll be in the hands of the P.O. the courts can give you fines and community service, but the P.O. can decide on drug testing, AA meetings, fees, and other things which you will have to submit to. If the P.O. doesn't like your dear person they can have the parole revoked and your friend, (I'm just using that as dear one is longer.) back in prison. Also, the crime lab department in TX is really corrupt and ineffective so even if your friend is one hundred percent clean he could still end up back in jail. I had a friend that did 2 and a half months, while they sorted out that he had in fact not failed the test and that there had been a mistake. Your situation just becomes extremely precarious and it can be a real strain, mentally and phisically.

    Same incident try to get the lesser charge dropped as part of the plea bargain. Here's the thing the DA want you to take the first offer they give you, because it's a messed up offer, but they can make it sound good. The fact of the matter is they haven't proven anyones guilt and getting your friend to plea would save them a lot of trouble and they would be willing to negotiate for that verdict. Also even if your friend does plea they have sixty days where they can re-open the case for free. After that time I think it's a 2500 dollar fee. I think they are really trying to fuck your friend because dropping the lesser charge and sticking with the bigger case is common practice so the fact that they are trying to stick both charges on him is not a good sign.

    You don't gotta ask for my permission to message me, just go ahead and send it. Anyways, I hoped this helped.
    The more I see, the less I know, the more I like to let it go! - RHCP

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