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Thread: IRAs

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default IRAs

    I'm ready to get started with my first IRA, but don't know where to start. There are a ton of financial companies advertising but I don't know which ones to avoid and which are good. Do I need to pay a FA to help me with this? Can I just get Kat to get me started?

    I hate risky investments. I hate investing my money in anything with risk. All I have ever had, investment-wise, is CDs. You could say I am extremely risk-averse when it comes to my money. So what does someone like me look for in today's IRAs??



    And yes, I did a search. The search function is apparently still limited to words with 4 or more letters so no results come up for "ira".

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: IRAs

    You have the option of a "Traditional IRA", "Roth IRA" or "SEP IRA". With a Roth you get taxed when you take the money out, with a traditional you pay taxes on it up front each year. For both a Roth and Traditional the maximimum annual contribution is $4,000, though it's set to increase to $5,000 I think in 2008. A SEP is good for people who own their own business, in lieu of a 401K. With a SEP you can put 25% or your income into it or $40,000, whichever is less. BTW, I might have made some mistakes on these definitions so feel free to correct me if needed.

    If you go with a FA, they'll talk to you about what your financial goals are before you invest. Since I'm young and have no dependents, I told my FA that I'm okay with agressive investment and am not risk-averse. Since you're still young and have no dependents I wouldn't recommend that you go too conservative. It's best to go conservative once you've built up a decent portfolio, want to hang on to your growth and have dependents. If you start off too conservatively then you won't get growth with good compound interest, which is what makes an IRA a pretty good long-term investment.

    As for finding an FA, since you move around a lot, you might have to get used to getting your FA's switched around on you depending on where you move. That can be a bad idea because it's better to work with people who know your goals and build a relationship with them. Also, a good FA will have you meet in person a couple of times a year to track your progress.

    Try searching "Roth IRA", "Traditional IRA" or "SEP IRA" to get better and more detailed results.
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    Default Re: IRAs

    I was wondering about IRA's the other day. Since I have my emergency funds put away now I can start saving for other things like retirement. Do you absolutely need a FA for IRAs?
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    Default Re: IRAs

    Quote Originally Posted by TigersMilk View Post
    I was wondering about IRA's the other day. Since I have my emergency funds put away now I can start saving for other things like retirement. Do you absolutely need a FA for IRAs?
    No, you can open one yourself on a discount brokerage site like Etrade or Scottrade.
    "She has written so well, and marvellously well, that I was completely ashamed of myself as a writer...But this girl, who is to my knowledge very unpleasant and we might even say a high-grade bitch, can write rings around all of us who consider ourselves as writers"

    Ernest Hemingway on writer, aviation pioneer and horse trainer Beryl Markham


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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: IRAs

    Ok, I know the difference between the types of IRAs, and will look into SEP for next year after I'm incorped. FYI, Roth contributions are taxed (not when you withdraw) annually but traditionals are deferred until withdrawal. Early withdrawal penalties apply for both but there is an exception for first time home-buyers and disability. I am going with traditional for now because my theory is, my income level will be lower at retirement age and therefore my tax bracket should be lower then. And I can use all the tax help I can get now

    What I didn't know was what type of investments you can make with IRA because I've never looked at it before. After a little online research I see you can make just about any investment with it, depending on which company you use.

    I will look at some more aggressive stuff - am interested in emerging markets funds and index funds for now. I am not interested enough to spend the time needed to invest in individual stocks so funds seem to be best option for me. Am I right??

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: IRAs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette View Post
    Ok, I know the difference between the types of IRAs, and will look into SEP for next year after I'm incorped. FYI, Roth contributions are taxed (not when you withdraw) annually but traditionals are deferred until withdrawal. Early withdrawal penalties apply for both but there is an exception for first time home-buyers and disability.

    What I didn't know was what type of investments you can make with IRA because I've never looked at it before. After a little online research I see you can make just about any investment with it, depending on which company you use.

    I will look at some more aggressive stuff - am interested in emerging markets funds, index funds for now. I am not interested enough to spend the time needed to invest in individual stocks so funds seem to be best option for me. Am I right??
    You might want to look into subscribing to Money Magazine. It has great common-sense advice for "real people" investors and has listings of individual stocks and different funds. Lots of good advice in there. Kiplinger's ad Smart Money also have great advice in them, though they're a little more advanced.

    I have some individual stocks and I've done ok with them actually. I've actually enjoyed the research involved in them.

    Index funds are a good way to begin. You can invest your IRA in just about anything, the only caveat is that for a lot of funds there's a minimum amount that you have to invest typically between $1K-$3K.
    "She has written so well, and marvellously well, that I was completely ashamed of myself as a writer...But this girl, who is to my knowledge very unpleasant and we might even say a high-grade bitch, can write rings around all of us who consider ourselves as writers"

    Ernest Hemingway on writer, aviation pioneer and horse trainer Beryl Markham


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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: IRAs

    Yeah I figured there'd be minimums for funds. I will be depositing enough this year to cover most minimums to get started. Figure I can diversify more as the account grows. Plan is to contribute every year from now on, so in the 30ish years until my retirement I should have a good egg going


    I should've been doing this years ago instead of screwing around with college *kicks self in ass*

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: IRAs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette View Post
    Yeah I figured there'd be minimums for funds. I will be depositing enough this year to cover most minimums to get started. Figure I can diversify more as the account grows. Plan is to contribute every year from now on, so in the 30ish years until my retirement I should have a good egg going


    I should've been doing this years ago instead of screwing around with college *kicks self in ass*
    Don't be too hard on yourself. You're still young and at least you're doing it and are committed to it. That's really, really important. You'd be surprised at just how few people really do invest. In part that's because it seems so complicated outwardly, not just because too many people in this country live paycheck to paycheck. A lot of baby boomers counted on Social Security and they're fucked now.

    As long as you contribute the maximum (which I know you can totally do) over another year or two you'll be surprised to see how much you have in investable assets, especially with the minimums going up soon. I gotta say, it's pretty addictive once you get used to saving and seeing your portfolio grow!
    "She has written so well, and marvellously well, that I was completely ashamed of myself as a writer...But this girl, who is to my knowledge very unpleasant and we might even say a high-grade bitch, can write rings around all of us who consider ourselves as writers"

    Ernest Hemingway on writer, aviation pioneer and horse trainer Beryl Markham


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    Default Re: IRAs

    You can open iras at your bank as well.

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    Default Re: IRAs

    Fidelity (who I use for my IRA) has a really awesome informational website.

    http://personal.fidelity.com/plannin...tml.cvsr?bar=c

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    Default Re: IRAs

    again on the subject of IRA's IMHO one must keep in mind that, just like purchasing a house, putting money into an IRA amounts to making a 'bet' today based on financial assumptions that will apply tommorrow (actually 30 years from now). Along those lines, I made these comments in a different thread a few months ago ...


    so...we shouldn't invest in roth ira's??? I know you're talking about irony, but seriously--
    Well of all the gov't approved retirement plan options, Roth is the least 'objectionable'. However, because of the tax-free nature of Roth dividend and interest earnings, the gov't still has 'strings attached' to that money. Admittedly the strings attached to a Roth are far fewer than to a conventional IRA. However, the gov't is totally aware of the existance of that retirement nest egg, and indeed has the power to change rules re eligibility for other retirement benefits at any time in the future. One of those changes will very probably be the 'means testing' of Social Security and Medicare benefits. In other words, 40 years from now if you have saved $1 million in a Roth, the gov't may deny you Social Security checks and Medicare benefits until you have spent that $1 million paying for your own living espenses and medical care.

    Sorry-- I don't have the figures or even an article to link to. Just wonder if now, at 23, what my chances are of having a million (or more) dollar nest egg if I started to do the 4,000 contribution every year.
    The way the US dollar is inflating, there is absolutely no doubt that you could wind up with $1 million in your Roth account 40 years from now. However, the power of compound interest is cancelled out by the power of cumulative inflation. Over the past 40 years, consumer price inflation has gone up at least 600% (in 1967 a new car cost $3,000, a postage stamp cost 5 cents etc.). Assuming the same inflation rate into the future, the purchasing power of your $1 million Roth account when you retire in 2047 would only equal $167,000 of today's dollars.

    This amount would compare to the potential loss of about $22,000 per year in today's dollars worth of Social Security checks ( = $132,000 a year in 600% inflated 2047 dollars) , plus whatever costs for medical care were not covered by Medicare. With such a 'means test' in place, your $1 million dollar nest egg would probably be exhausted after less than 10 years of retirement ... at which point you would be 'broke' and finally become eligible for Social Security checks and Medicare coverage.

    On the other hand, if that same $4000 per year had been invested in real estate or gold bars or other assets, 40 years from now you could immediately start receiving $132,000 per year (in 2047 dollars) in Social Security checks plus Medicare health insurance coverage ... and still have those assets !

    Of course this is all speculation ... however the courts have ruled that Social Security, Medicare and other retirement programs are NOT cast in stone contracts, thus the gov't has the power to eliminate them or to put conditions on them at any time in the future. The demographics of future retirees versus future working taxpayers, and US gov't debt obligations to the rest of the world, unfortunately, are NOT conjecture but very real.


    One thing that is known to be unequivocably true 30 years from now is that the percentage of Americans who have reached legal retirement age will vastly increase. It is also known that many of these future retirees have not saved a whole lot of their own money to finance their own retirement. Thus huge pressures will exist on the Social Security system to enact 'means testing' for the payment of future retirement benefits, in order that the gov't can channel what Social Security money is available to people who 'need' it the most.

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    Default Re: IRAs

    I remember that thread now.

    So, would you say that a 33yo stripper would be better off chucking the IRA and investing in other assets altogether? I understand time value of money, inflation, price index, basic tax stuff etc. What I don't know crap about is investing, what is a "good" risk and what isn't. And frankly I don't have the inclination to spend much time figuring it out. All I really want to do is set up a reasonably comfortable off-the-grid house in a place like Costa Rica, and forget the rest. But I know I need some better financial planning for retirement. Website is generating decent (livable) nearly-passive income and will for the forseeable future, and I can run it from anywhere there's internet, but I don't want to place all my eggs in that basket. I don't have enough savings to retire - have some assets (which will stay right where they are for a while) but not nearly enough to say, retire NOW.

    Honestly, I really don't know where to start. I have been waffling for the last few years because of fear and simple not knowing what to do first. I know how to make money, but I don't know wtf to do with it. blah!!

    This is SO not my forte.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: IRAs

    If you're the passive investor who needs a simple IRA solution, what has become a popular trend by mutual fund companies is to create "target date" funds that auto-adjust their asset allocation to a more conservative portfolio over time. This way you can enjoy the higher returns of stocks when you have a long time horizon, yet mitigate their risks as your portfolio adjusts to bonds and treasuries when you near retirement. I have my IRA (two of them actually, one traditional, one Roth) in one of these funds.

    http://www.fool.com/personal-finance...plan-ever.aspx

    http://www.vanguard.com/VGApp/hnw/co...verviewJSP.jsp
    http://personal.fidelity.com/product...nds.shtml.cvsr
    http://www.troweprice.com/common/ind...Fund_I_Want_to
    http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/...fpid=P-1388867
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: IRAs

    ^^^ under those circumstances, I'd say make sure that your money is in the form of a medium term investment that is NOT subject to having 'strings attached' by the US gov't. After all, if you're planning on moving to Costa Rica eventually you don't want your money trapped inside the USA !

    If your income levels are such that you're in a nasty tax bracket, there are other ways to skin that cat without signing onto a 30 year retirement program. First off is using the 'leverage' provided by a 15% capital gains tax rate versus a 25-30-35% tax rate on 'ordinary income' - which means buying 'assets' like stocks or gold bars which are considered as capital gains when they are sold at a profit. Second is taking advantage of one of the favorite tax avoidance tools of the 'rich' - tax free muni bonds.

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    Default Re: IRAs

    I have (very briefly) looked at munis because of the tax advantages but at a glance they don't seem to offer much in the way of returns. Or am I not looking in the right places? If the normal returns on those are that low, I'd have to figure that the tax advantages are sufficient to make them better than (or at least as good as) investments with higher returns.

    I have been considering the issue of having my money "trapped" in USA. But again, figuring out which direction to go is a bit overwhelming. I am not planning to live in this country for the next 30 years, that's for sure.

    Also, starting 2007 I'll be corporate. Whole 'nother can of worms. I already did 2006 taxes but think I should find an accountant / advisor to help me figure out what to do starting now. Yes?

    Considering my goals, perhaps I should scrap the "conventional" plan and start over. bah!

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: IRAs

    well, for a fact, if you plan on being an ex-pat you need a different outlook on your financial planning.

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    Default Re: IRAs

    Yeah, consider the IRA scrapped I want the freedom to withdraw money or at least collect dividends/interest without penalty before age 60.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: IRAs

    You should put some savings into an Roth or T-IRA. You aren't going to die at 65, and you'll use those funds at some point long-term.

    If this world is going to hell in a handbasket as the doomsdayers say, it won't make a shit of difference if you have dollars, stock, or gold. Your concern is going to be where your next meal comes from and if the radiation poisoning has progressed. I'd like to look a bit to the bright side.

    You will likely need to focus most of your portfolio in non tax-qualified investments so you can get flexibility of time.

    And you can get into Munis cheap through a muni fund. I have two that have returned steadily over the last 10 years with low expense ratios.

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    Default Re: IRAs

    Bridgette,
    The way it was explained to me if you do a Roth, your original contributions can be withdrawn w/o a penalty. The money that your money makes is stuck unless you pay a (hefty) fee.
    I would encourage you to be slightly more aggressive if you can bear it, b/c you are so young. I'm the same way though. I use Vanguard, BTW.

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    Default Re: IRAs

    ^^^ true on the face of it. but ALL of the accredited US retirement fund programs place some conditions on the early withdrawl of money ... and withdrawl for the purpose of moving yourself and your money out of the country is NOT on the list !

    Brigitte, just a dumb question, but if you are really serious about the future ex-pat thing have you given any thought to forming a FOREIGN corporation i.e. incorporating in the country that you're considering the future move to ? I know this is more complex to set up, but it would have HUGE tax advantages in the future.

    As far as disappoint returns on muni bond (funds), the returns are far greater if you can afford to actually purchase the bond yourself. But this typically requires at least $5k increments through brokers to get a 'good' rate of return, and a $50k investment to outright buy a bond to get maximum return. As you point out, a 5% tax free interest rate on the bond itself isn't too terrible if your fed + state tax bracket is 30%+. However, broker's fees and especially muni bond fund management fees can quickly shave that 5% down to 4% or 3% unless you can afford to 'cut out the middlemen'.

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    Default Re: IRAs

    Yes ma'am. I will HAVE TO form a foreign corp in the other country in order to own property there or operate any business there. Unless I want to become a citizen, which may or may not happen. I explained a little better in my other thread - the plan is to use the US corp first and then form the foreign one. I need to do more research, but I think the way to do it is to use the US corp to operate in the US and pay my foreign corp for services rendered (at that point I'd be a paid employee of the foreign corp, working in that country). So, if I'm correct, my US tax bill would be based on the profit left after paying expenses, including what I pay to the foreign corp. Then the foreign corp would be responsible for its own income in that country. My personal taxes, since I'd be living and working for the foreign corp in the other country, would go to that country. For my personal taxes I'd still have to file a US return and take credit for foreign taxes paid as long as I'm a US citizen, and that's ok. I THINK this is right.

    I don't mind a bit of extra paperwork as long as I know what I'm doing and it's not too extensive. Bit of extra paperwork is a small price to pay for living in paradise


    I know it's possible for a foreign corp to operate within the US without the umbrella of a US corp, but I think a US corp is still best for having a US merchant account to process CCs. I have looked, and I could get a merchant account in the other country but it would cost quite a bit more and have more risk. Using a US corp allows me to keep bank accounts and merchant accounts here, and just pay the foreign corp for contracted services so I can pay myself salary there. Yes?

    Am I anywhere near on track?


    By the way, this has been my ultimate life-goal for a long time. I'm just getting to the point where I can get started on it. So, YAY!

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: IRAs

    I will look at some more aggressive stuff - am interested in emerging markets funds and index funds for now. I am not interested enough to spend the time needed to invest in individual stocks so funds seem to be best option for me. Am I right??
    This is what I've started doing with an ING fund. Considering how badly I was killed this year in taxes (again), I should probably be doing more of it.
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    Default Re: IRAs

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette View Post
    I will look at some more aggressive stuff - am interested in emerging markets funds and index funds for now. I am not interested enough to spend the time needed to invest in individual stocks so funds seem to be best option for me. Am I right??
    Whoa, wait a second. Index funds and emerging market funds are not the same thing. Meaning, you can have an index fund that represents emerging market equity, debt, or combo. But an index fund is simply a funds of companies passively managed by a computer. Index fund will measure trends of that asset class. Professionally managed funds, if you pick the right ones, will get you a superior return DESPITE the expense ratio and cost of investing.

    Don't let these internet evanagelists try to convert you into something that will shortchange you. What ROI would you rather get? 10% with an index fund? OR...13% with a managed fund, even though the gross return was 14%? Know what I mean? But you have to pick good funds with good managers AND mix it up with index/ETF. After that, individual stocks can be integrated into your portfolio....

    B, you can do all index funds if you like, but you need to have a more diverse asset mix. For example, emerging markets take a beating ALL the time, very volatile asset class. You must hedge downward.

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    Default Re: IRAs

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish View Post
    If you're the passive investor who needs a simple IRA solution, what has become a popular trend by mutual fund companies is to create "target date" funds that auto-adjust their asset allocation to a more conservative portfolio over time. This way you can enjoy the higher returns of stocks when you have a long time horizon, yet mitigate their risks as your portfolio adjusts to bonds and treasuries when you near retirement. I have my IRA (two of them actually, one traditional, one Roth) in one of these funds.

    http://www.fool.com/personal-finance...plan-ever.aspx

    http://www.vanguard.com/VGApp/hnw/co...verviewJSP.jsp
    http://personal.fidelity.com/product...nds.shtml.cvsr
    http://www.troweprice.com/common/ind...Fund_I_Want_to
    http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/...fpid=P-1388867
    I've never seen a target date fund that I like. They are waaaaaaaaay to conservative from the get-go and have been drawing out industry criticism.

    In regards to the list up there, my fave funds are the r.RowePrice followed by Fidelity. Vanguard has a couple as well, but overall I think they are a shady company.

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

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    Default Re: IRAs

    I know index funds and emerging markets funds are different - I understand what they are I just put them together in the sentence because those two types are most interesting to me. The few emerging markets funds I've looked at seem to have some serious good return rates, so far. Some also have some serious peaks and valleys.

    Generally, I know the basics of what alot of investments ARE, I just don't know which are better investments and am super risk-averse so it's hard for me to put my money into anything that doesn't have a guaranteed return. Hence, I have never ventured into anything other than savings account and CD. I think my biggest problem is I always think how HARD I work for my money so I can't stand the thought of losing it

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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