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Thread: They're not buyin it

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    Default They're not buyin it

    Hi there Ladies,


    I'll keep it short, this is what I doCome over and say, "May I sit with you guys"? Sit, down, be friendly and ask them alot of questions, make conversation, smile,make eye contact, act casual. After awhile if no one asks me, I'll ask if someone wants a dance. If no one does, I'll talk a minute more, and then excuse myself to "go mingle".
    What I wear: school girl outfit, or black lingerie outfit with thigh highs. Straightened, styled hair, smell good, make up.
    What I do on stage: swing around the pole once or twice then go down by the side of the stage where the guys are. Usually put money in their mouth or on some part of their body then do my thing to get it off. BTW, it's boring me and I'm starting to feel like a trained monkey dancing for peanuts. Don't know how else to make money on stage.
    What I do outside work: Read sales and conversation books.
    THE PROBLEM: I'm getting even worse!!!!!! My confidence is waning terribly. I started out not making money, but now it's going into the negative some nights. I know the other girls aren't making as little as I do. Sometimes guys leave when I come to the stage. Everyone's turning me down. No one buys my promos. I try to stay out on the floor, but after I've been rejected by every table, I get embarassed and go sit in the back for awhile and then the houseparent thinks I'm not trying. I AM!! What else am I supposed to do? And yes, I've tried different clubs. I think the guys can sense that I'm running a sale on them, and they're not interested. Please help if you can.

    Thanks!!!!
    Parker

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    1. Sales techniques only work if your personal selling style matches the author's style. Read the book "Sales Dogs" from the Rich Dad series to get more info on that subject. If you have to force yourself to be something you're not, it won't work. (Your trained monkey comment made me think you might be forcing yourself to "sell").

    2. When on stage, try one new move a week. Even if you feel awkward, just try something new. Your new move can be as simple as messing with a customer's hat or glasses, or as complicated as a pole invert while doing the splits. This will keep you from getting bored and feeling like you are just following a "routine".

    3. Have one shift to make it a goal to get the most possible rejections for dances in a row. I know this sounds counter productive, but it will get you used to hearing the word no w/o any pressure to sell dances. I make bets with myself that if I hear more than 20 "nos" in a row, I'll buy myself a treat (pedicure, dinner...Just something simple). I call it my training.

    It is possible to feel positive emotions with something negative if you are being rewarded for the negative thing. Dieting isn't fun, but losing weight and looking great is, so therefore we stick to the diet even if it is drudgery and sometimes painful (to be hungry).

    Here is how the game of "Reject" works. Work one extra shift. The goal is NOT to earn money, but to be rejected as much as possible during the shift. My record is 27 "nos" before getting a yes answer. I would wait by the men's room and ask guys as they were heading to the bathroom (that was sort of cheating, but it got my number higher).

    After you get a dance, your counter resets. For instance, you got 10 no answers in a row before you got a yes answer, you are back to zero again after you get the dance. Then you get back out there and try for 11 no answers to try and beat your previous record.

    This works in a couple of ways. The first is that you don't seem forced or desperate to the customers because you WANT them to turn you down. You are trying to top your previous "high score" and get into a habit of playing this game like playing solitaire is so addicting.

    The second way this game works is that you will make more money on the nights you are not playing. It will teach you how to feel confident when rejected, to just shrug it off as "no big deal" and move on to the next customer. You'll stop taking the rejections personal, and just move on. After I learned this game, my hustle really stepped up, and anyone I've ever taught this game to has had similar results.

    It will help you find your sales style and relax and have fun at work. Try it and let me know what you think.


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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  4. #3
    Kaylinn
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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    1. Your confidance is waning. Your getting rejected to much every night, and that is starting to show in yrou confidance. Now instead of thinking they WILL buy, your probably thinking, well..they might buy, but I doubt it. If you dont have confidance in yrouself, why should anyone else? SO first of all, change your thinking. Go into the club knowing you will make money, you will sell dances, everyone does want you, noone will reject you. Keep thinking that, even when you get a no. Dont get discouraged, try your best not to let a no bother you. Keep having fun. Noone wants a dance from someoen who isnt enjoying themselves.
    Which brings me to
    2. Your getting bored on stage. If your bored, you dont look like your having fun or enjoying youself. So change up your routine. Learn new things. Just try something different. So what if you mess it up or look silly. At least you'll look like your having fun. Act liek you own the stage, your the best dancer up there. Smile a lot, have fun, make eye contact. When you lean down to take someoen's tip, smile and say" as soon as Im done on this stage, I want to dance for you" When you get off stage, start makign your rounds takign people back for the dances you just lined up.

    3. When you walk up to guys, dont ask " may I sit?" Tell them. You wouldnt mind if I sat down, would you? As your sitting down. Dont wait for them to ask you for a dance. Tell them. After talkign for a few minutes, tell them. I know you want me to dance for you when the next song starts, dont you?
    You have to show confidance.

    When your getting a lot of rejection, you start getting desperate to make money, and that desperation shows. If you are putting off the vibe that your ohnly interested in the money, that turns guy soff. They want to think you dont really care abotu the money, that you truly want to dance for them. Even if they know it isnt true,they still want to believe it.
    I had this problem myself. I started getting desperate, and only caring abotu the money and it showed. The more i cared abotu the money, the less I made. SO I started pretneding I did not care baout money. I started pretending I was at work just to make friends. I viewed every guy I talked to as someone I was trying to make friends with, or like someone I was interested in picking up at the bar. As soon as I put the money out of my mind, I started making it again. People starting wanting to give me money, even before I ever asked for it.
    Now..just because Im saying view them as friends and put the money out of your mind does not mean sit there all night talking and not trying to make money. Still ask a guy for a dance after a few minutes. If they say no, move on. Dont waste time sitting there after they say no. Go find someone who will say yes.

    At any given moment, there is someone in that club who will buy a dance from you. You just have to find that person.

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    Featured Member 21stcenturyfox's Avatar
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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    thought to ponder: imagine youre having a great night, feeling awesome and totally confident. you get up on stage and some people leave, would you notice they left?

    i think wen we're feeling self concious and like there must be something we are doing wrong, we notice every little thing and see it in a negative light even wen it probably isnt happening for the reason we think it is. its called paranoia and i get it ALL the time. ive had to deal with it my whole life and thats why i mentioned this particular senario because i hav to keep reminding myself that you never know the reasons someone does something so dont assume so much

    i think you need to do a few nights of faking it to make it. pretend youre the top earner in the club and like you make a grand a night. walk tall, smile, be confident and sexy, KNOW that you are worth it, sexy and love giving guys a great time.

    i get annoyed wen i get said no to because i KNOW i always give the guys a great time and i get pissed off cos theyre missing out! lol

    and thats coming from someone who had series self esteem issues. ok, i dont feel like that EVERY night, im not perfect, but only you can change whats happening to you right now.

    why not go to www.thesecret.tv and watch the movie. it teaches you how to think positively and will help you replace your thoughts with what you need to get the results you want.

    you ARE worth it, believe it to see it.

    good luck honey

    (i should practice what i preach!)
    "Sex is currency. What's the use of being beautiful if you can't profit from it?" - Lily St Cyr (40's burlesque dancer)

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    Featured Member 21stcenturyfox's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: They're not buyin it

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaylinn View Post
    3. When you walk up to guys, dont ask " may I sit?" Tell them. You wouldnt mind if I sat down, would you? As your sitting down. Dont wait for them to ask you for a dance. Tell them. After talkign for a few minutes, tell them. I know you want me to dance for you when the next song starts, dont you?
    You have to show confidance.
    i used to say that and it gets an automatic no answer because thr perefix "you dont mind" gets a "no, i dont mind" so, what i do now is say "its ok if i join you right?" which gets a "YES, its ok, i dont mind"

    its assumptive and is already telling the custy that you thnk youre good enough to be company for them and it gets the first yes out of them without them realising. yes begets yes, no begets no, money begets money.

    while talking to them, to keep them on the right track, i say things like, "you guys have come in to have some hot, sexy fun tonight, havent you?" and they smile and say yes, and if the timing is right, i say "youd love a hot, sexy dance from me now wouldnt you?" and they usually say yes. im still trying to get the timing right to ask for that dance but at least i know what to do now! thanks SW!
    "Sex is currency. What's the use of being beautiful if you can't profit from it?" - Lily St Cyr (40's burlesque dancer)

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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    yeah you definitely sound bored with your stage routine, and also like you're just going through the motions in a forced manner. not only are you insecure b/c people dont want dances, but also probably b/c your self conscious of your stage routine.

    some may think this is bad advice, but sometimes if you don't feel confident, act it anyway. the reactions you may get from that may cause you to then actually really feel confident. i read that on some sales thing, i think...something about if you don't feel it, act it or something.

    also, i agree very much with the no game. i still haven't tried it myself, but it sounds great. just be careful if your club has a high payout and you don't get enough money to pay that and end up with negative amt again.

    try new tactics to get money. if your club has many regulars, the whole school girl grabbing money out of a custies wherever with her whatever may be old if they see if numerous times per week.

    watch what the other girls do, maybe. how does their style differ from yours, and what makes it work for them?

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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    Thanks Ladies!!!!

    I can't tell you how much all those tips help. Well, I haven't gone to work yet actually, but I'm on my way there now, with new-founded confidence and I have HOPE that they will help! I'm totally gonna try all that tonight, whether I've already tried it or not. I've definately never done the try to lose dances thing, and hopefully it will help me look less desperate. Okay, well i'm gonna go re-read before I have to drive to work. I will tell you how it goes. Thanks again,

    Parker

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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    Also try and look at things through a guys eyes a little.

    You're in to earn money - they're there to have a good time/indulge in their fantasies. Only when they think you're going to provide the good time/fantasies will you earn.

    If you do your "trained monkey" thing on stage, the average male wind will think: she's going through the motions on stage - she'll do the same thing during a private dance. In effect your stage shows are adverts for your private dances - make the stage show appealing and you immediately raise the odds on getting private dances.

    The smiling/eye contact etc is good - us custy's like to think the dancer likes us. Have you considered getting a book on body language and learning about the flirtation signals we give off when we are attracted to someone. The dancers I know that earn often give off or mimic these signals, which has a powerful effect on the male ego.

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerposey View Post
    I think the guys can sense that I'm running a sale on them, and they're not interested. Parker
    You've hit the nail on the head here. We like our illusions and one of which is that you're enjoying dancing for us. The thought that $20 is the sole motivation for you wanting us to buy a dance is a turn off.

    You've got to convey the impression that you're getting enjoyment out of what you're doing and the money is a useful (but secondary) by-product.

    Watch the dancers that bank and ask yourself two questions:

    (a) Are they very flirtateous with the customers and in doing so are they communicating that they 'like' the customer?

    (b) Are they going the impression that they like being watched when they dance?

    See if you can pick up on those two things and ask yourself if you can project the same impression.

    Phil.

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    God/dess cinammonkisses's Avatar
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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    My question is: Do you usually try to sit and sell to groups of guys? I've tried, and it's not my style. I'd much rather sit with the guy who came into the club down on his luck, and alone.







    Some Douchebag: "[Pimp C] 12:43 am: its true we got to stick together the black people on SW CK you is teh condoleeza of SW"


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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    im goign to disect what you said to give you a full out answer as to what i think will help you. the other answers were great, and i might repeat, but this is my take.
    Quote Originally Posted by parkerposey View Post
    Come over and say, "May I sit with you guys"? Sit, down, be friendly and ask them alot of questions, make conversation, smile,make eye contact, act casual.
    first, when you sit, pick A GUY not the group. you aren't selling to a whole group, you are selling to ONE target. the best way to choose the target is to note (as you approach) who is watching you. smile at THAT person, and say to them, may i join you for a bit? then, plop on their lap or somehow make sure they are looking at you somehow. if they are looking around, not at you, get up and go. they aren't into you and will waste your time. i like to sit on their lap and sorta shove boobs in face or eye to eye contact if im across from them. if they avert eyes a lot while we speak, i hurry and ask in the first minute of me being there.

    After awhile if no one asks me, I'll ask if someone wants a dance.
    WHOA! girl, never never never think that way. no one will ask you!!! YOU make it happen. YOU are the salesman. YOU are selling the dances. keep it to the 3-5 minute rule. not "a while". 3-5 minutes of sitting and ask. if they say soon then say, "shoudl i stick around and wait? or do you want me to come back?" they will answer honestly and then you will know your time is not being wasted.

    If no one does, I'll talk a minute more, and then excuse myself to "go mingle".
    this isnt a dance club or party! it's a strip club there is no "mingling" that you need to do. you are there to SELL SELL SELL not to mingle and make friends.

    i reiterate: you are NOT sellign to a whole group ("if no one does") you are selling/should be selling to ONE individual in the group. if he doesn't bite, you see who else is checking you out in the group. that's your next target.

    What I wear: school girl outfit, or black lingerie outfit with thigh highs. Straightened, styled hair, smell good, make up.
    What I do on stage: swing around the pole once or twice then go down by the side of the stage where the guys are. Usually put money in their mouth or on some part of their body then do my thing to get it off. BTW, it's boring me and I'm starting to feel like a trained monkey dancing for peanuts. Don't know how else to make money on stage.
    selling lap dances is not done on stage. period. yes you need to look good and made up and smell wonderful but your stage performance is only for stage tips, not for LDs.


    THE PROBLEM: I'm getting even worse!!!!!! My confidence is waning terribly. I started out not making money, but now it's going into the negative some nights. I know the other girls aren't making as little as I do. Sometimes guys leave when I come to the stage. Everyone's turning me down. No one buys my promos. I try to stay out on the floor, but after I've been rejected by every table, I get embarassed and go sit in the back for awhile and then the houseparent thinks I'm not trying. I AM!! What else am I supposed to do? And yes, I've tried different clubs. I think the guys can sense that I'm running a sale on them, and they're not interested. Please help if you can.
    you said it yourself. confidence. you need it. it sells for you. visualize yourself selling lap dances all night long, being busy with no breaks. visualize the customer enjoying you and your company as well as your dance. project that with a smile and sexy flirty eyes. if guys are leaving, maybe something else is wrong. maybe (i dont mean this meanly, im just tryign to fig out the issue) you need to tone up, maybe you are drunk and look it, maybe you smell bad (even if you dont realize). maybe you need to pay to stay off stage, and concentrate on selling. talk to your DJ about this.

    Love it!

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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    Also never say to a group of guys "who wants a dance?" because:

    - if u ask one guy it puts him on the spot and he feels responsible for whether he says yes or no

    - whereas asking a group creates a loophole where no one feels obliged

    It also doesnt make the guys feel special. You have to make them think u picked them out of the crowd to offer a dance too coz of something personal about them - they know deep down its not true but its a subconscious thing.
    By asking if anyone wants a dance it doesn't make them feel special.

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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    It is possible to feel positive emotions with something negative if you are being rewarded for the negative thing. Dieting isn't fun, but losing weight and looking great is, so therefore we stick to the diet even if it is drudgery and sometimes painful (to be hungry).

    Here is how the game of "Reject" works. Work one extra shift. The goal is NOT to earn money, but to be rejected as much as possible during the shift. My record is 27 "nos" before getting a yes answer. I would wait by the men's room and ask guys as they were heading to the bathroom (that was sort of cheating, but it got my number higher).
    Good with the diet analogy Paris, put it in terms we understand intimately.

    This reject game is an interesting concept. I am going to have to play on the next crappy night I work. Thanks

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    Thumbs up Re: They're not buyin it

    Quote Originally Posted by Paris View Post
    1. Sales techniques only work if your personal selling style matches the author's style. Read the book "Sales Dogs" from the Rich Dad series to get more info on that subject. If you have to force yourself to be something you're not, it won't work. (Your trained monkey comment made me think you might be forcing yourself to "sell").
    A little off-topic yet on-topic at the same time

    I do totally recommend this book! It helped me learn my "style" plus the website is of help as you can do @ SalesDog® Breed Diagnostic

    I learnt I'm predominantly Chihuahua

    I also found his Little Voice Management Systems CD quite helpful as well.


    enter: E3167322D9 for your 10% discount

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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    What in Sam Hill, I posted a reply but it disappeared.
    Wow, that's alot of great information, thank you so much ladies (and one guy)!!!
    So, I tried the rejection game as well as a few new moves I learned on youtube. Together, they must've helped me to look less desperate cuz I sold some guy 7 lapdances, and another 3. Of course, all the alchohol I drank may have been a factor. Unfortunately I still haven't mastered feeling comfortable talking to the guys unless I'm atleast slightly tipsy.
    BTW, I did accrue 6 rejections before I got my first dance. Another funny thing is, on the rare event where I HAVE had a good night, I felt nervous and did poorly the next day. My friend says I may have a fear of success and getting out of my comfort zones. I don't know how I can feel comfortable living in the vapid squalor that I exist in, but it must be a psychological thing. I have to get over it, and your ideas seem to be helping. Thank you SO MUCH and I'm gonna go re-read again now. I hope it's busy on St. Paddy's day cuz I'm working while my friends are all out partying.

    Thanks,
    Parker

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    Kaylinn
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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    Unfortunately I still haven't mastered feeling comfortable talking to the guys unless I'm atleast slightly tipsy
    You'll never master feeling comfortable sober until you do it. It's that comfort zone thing. Dont rely on alcohol to feel comfortable enough to work. Once you get into that habit, it's a tough one to break.

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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerposey View Post
    So, I tried the rejection game as well as a few new moves I learned on youtube. Together, they must've helped me to look less desperate cuz I sold some guy 7 lapdances, and another 3.

    Thanks,
    Parker
    I didn't say it in the post I made, but whenever I've played the rejection game, I've always had a good $$ night. That isn't the point of the game, but I knew you would make some money simply because you were "playing" instead of "working".

    So now when you get rejected, you'll think about the game and keep going because you know there is more money out there.

    The game works even better with a partner. Play with another dancer friend that you know and trust. Wager something with her (like a drink or dinner out or a costume) and whoever gets the most rejections wins the item wagered! I'd be willing to bet that you both would have exceptionally good shifts. Even the loser is a winner in that game, because she sold a bunch of dances!


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    God/dess Paris's Avatar
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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaylinn View Post
    You'll never master feeling comfortable sober until you do it. It's that comfort zone thing. Dont rely on alcohol to feel comfortable enough to work. Once you get into that habit, it's a tough one to break.
    Here! Here! I'll drink to that! JK!


    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerposey View Post
    Unfortunately I still haven't mastered feeling comfortable talking to the guys unless I'm atleast slightly tipsy.
    If you can't do your job sober, then maybe this isn't the job for you. I hate to see girls as soon as they come into work "numb" themselves by downing drinks or popping pills.







    Some Douchebag: "[Pimp C] 12:43 am: its true we got to stick together the black people on SW CK you is teh condoleeza of SW"


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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    ^ my thoughts exactly.

    Love it!

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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    Oh boy did I try to explain this a newb Thursday night. She really can't do this job sober. I told her that she should think about doing something else if she can't do it sober as it isn't the right job for her. She said she only drinks whilst at work and at no other time and plus the reason she does this job is for the money.

    I had to sigh and walk away. I pity her. She doesn't realise she is doing more harm to herself and her money than good in the end. Drunk chicks are not a nice thing to look at for me.

    I do this job sober and only drink if I am in an hour long VIP dance with someone or someone has booked me for a decent length of time (ie two 20 minute dances). I will then have ONE drink per half hour that the customer has booked me.

    Anyway, back to the thread.

    I really recommend that CD I did earlier in the thread. It may help you overcome the "small voice" in your head that is stopping you from being mediocre to great.

    Or....... in the end........... just realise that no matter how "great" you think stripping is.. it is not for you if you just can't do this form of work sober.


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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    Thanks again Ladies,

    I'll look into that C.D.. It may have some answers to my lack of confidence.

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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    Another way of looking at how to talk to guy's is to approach it in a slightly different way.

    Assume you're out for a drink in the evening and you see a guy you really fancy and go over to talk to him. At that point you'd pull out all the stops to get his attention - flirting, hanging on his every word, finding out as much as you can about him.

    Similar idea when you're working; you need to pay the same degree of attention to a guy - except the aim is to get him to buy a dance rather than ask to take you out for dinner.

    I've never been able to fully explain it, but a powerful motivating factor for most of us guys is "date the dancer" syndrome - we all love to think that we can get your phone number and see you outside of the club.

    A lot of the dancers who do well arouse that expectation and will get dances because the guy thinks "If I buy a dance, I'll get to chat to her longer - which gives me a better chance of getting her phone number"

    Repeat business is keeping the expectation of a phone number dangling in front of us, but always another one or two dances ahead.

    (Always have a graceful exit line, so we doesn't feel we were strung along).

    Phil.

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    Kaylinn
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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    You know, I've found that the best spenders in a club aren't the type of guy you described ( date the stripper syndrome) I've found that the best spenders are the guys that are there for company and a good time, and know they need to pay the dancer for her company and time, and they have no other expectations. These are the guys that you can establish as regulars, and good regulars at that, because they will continue to come into the club to buy dances/VIP rooms, but wil lnever ask for more, or ask for a relationship outside the club. Usually these guys are married, and either wealthy or at least comfortbale, and are just lookign for some company with a pretty girl that isnt their wife. Sometimes...these guys dont even want dances, they just want to talk.
    These are the types of guys I have made the most money off of, and had the best time with. I seek these customers out and when I find them, try to keep them as long as possible, because your lucky if you can find just 1 a night, but if you do...your set.

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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    I went to the link GCG just mentioned and I found this: Nice feedback http://www.salesdogs.com/pages/tools...sdsecrets.html







    Some Douchebag: "[Pimp C] 12:43 am: its true we got to stick together the black people on SW CK you is teh condoleeza of SW"


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    Default Re: They're not buyin it

    Quote Originally Posted by parkerposey View Post
    Come over and say, "May I sit with you guys"? Sit, down, be friendly and ask them alot of questions, make conversation, smile,make eye contact, act casual. After awhile if no one asks me, I'll ask if someone wants a dance. If no one does, I'll talk a minute more, and then excuse myself to "go mingle".
    As a customer, I can tell you this would be exactly the wrong approach to take toward me. The thing is, you're playing this extended game of pretending that you're not really there to see if anyone wants a PD, which puts the customer into the position of pretending back that they don't know that you're there to see if anyone wants a PD, and the longer it goes with no one getting to the point, the more awkward and uncomfortable it gets until the whole mood/fantasy is broken. Then it goes from "incredibly gorgeous girl is talking to me" to "this is like a bad first date"

    I can tell you that when a dancer approaches me in a club, I can usually tell in the first 15-30 seconds or so if I am interested in a dance with her. And it may not be anything against her if I don't, she may be perfectly beautiful and alluring, but maybe just not my type, or not the type I am looking for that night, or some other dancer interested me and I'm waiting to see if she comes back around...or whatever reason, but I can usually tell pretty quickly if I am interested or not, and hanging around and making small talk isn't going to change it. I can only think of a couple times when I've decided to get a lapdance because of the conversation after the first 30 seconds or so, and that has been very specific things, for example, I was wearing a t-shirt of an obscure band that she also really genuinely liked and talked to me about.

    Honestly the approach that works best on me is a hand on my shoulder and a simple "Hi, I'm <stage name>, what's your name?" followed by "Would you like a private dance with me?" It's ridiculously simple, but it puts me into a snap-decision mode and if I'm interested at all I'm likely to just blurt out "sure!"

    One other trick that worked on me a few times, was a particular dancer who always started with "I saw you watching me while I was on stage, and I thought you might like a private dance." Creates the illusion that you took special notice of the guy and that there's some connection there. I only caught on to that one after the same line had worked on me from the same dancer on like 4 separate occasions! Then it dawned on me, well of course she saw me watching her, she was up on stage

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