




I'm going to stab a beetle so SophieMarie gets herpes.
Makes sense, right?
Look like a woman
Think like a man
Act like a lady
Work like a dog
- My Great Grandmother Bessie's Recipe for Success










Oh, and fuck you, Sophiemarie.
I respectfully disagree. Likeability IS electability in many cases. Who was the last President we elected he was NOT more likeable than his opponent ? Coolidge ?
Obama may be untested but he's NOT underfunded. He outraised Hillary and has twice as many donors as she does including some prominent former "FOB" 's.
While Hillary certainly has some political smarts where is her record of actual performance ? Name one thing she's actually done or gotten accomplished.
Obama has shown he can match Hillary stride for stride on fundraising and btw only individuals may donate directly ; not businesses.
I don't think we're likely to see too many soft-money attack ads addressed to either Hillary or Obama until AFTER the primaries.
Where to begin...
She has gotten health care 9-11 first responders.
She helped get the 9-11 commission created and its findings implemented.
She has sponsored legislation to increase America's committment to fighting the global HIV and AIDS crisis.
She has sponosored and fought for legislation to make sure that all children get immunized.
She has worked to improve the foster care and adoption system in this country.
She has made sure that drugs marketed for children are actually safe for children.
She extended health coverage for National Guardsmen and Reserve soldiers.
She fought to make sure our troops in Iraq have body armour and more armoured humvees.
She fought to stop George Bush from privitizing Social Security.
She introduced legislation to tie congressional salary increases to an increase in the minimum wage.
She has authored legislation to spur the development of alternative fuels.
I'm tired of typing.... (sorry for any typos)
I'm not american, so may be sorely mistaken, but am i the only person who thinks that to call hilary a socialist is severly deluded???
For the record, I lean to the left politically, believe in the basic socialist pillars of free education, healthcare and social service (SOCIALSIT as per europe, not communism, they are different!!!) but acknowledge the role of capatism and free market (hey, i'm a stripper after all). LOVE Obama! but admit i got on the bandwagon and don't know much, in depth about where he stands on policy. have had a soft spot for John Edwards, have for years! but have no time for hilary whatso ever
BILL, had socialist principles through and through and everyone seems to transplant these onto hilary but if you actually look at the substance of what she has to say, i'd put her on the right of the democrat specrum in most areas. Hilary seems to be great at tracking public mood (she's a great politican but so's condi and i hate her as well) but appears to have no actual substance bar power-grabbing. She completely lacks the visonary aspect bill had (like him or hate him, he had a completely new vision and direction for america when he came to power) whilst hilary seems rooted in maintaining the status quo and severely lacking in any REAL reform. i think she rides on the goodwill of what many people felt for bill (the realtive peace, is nostalgically looking good when compared to george), not to mention the whole 'female' card which in itself is no good reason to vote for her.
I'm really interested as to where this whole 'hilary as the bastion of the left' thing has come from as i've studied her texts a fair bit, but obvioulsy haven't been exposed to the whole media/personal aspect of her (both coming from her camp and from outside sources) which can of course often present a totally different picture???
Seriously, I can't really see Hilary as being much more leftist than Obama or even Juliani...
Last edited by TheSexKitten; 04-27-2007 at 08:28 PM. Reason: sounded dumb
^^^^ i comepletely agree with you on that point!
And even guiliani (who i'm not particularily a fan of) and Obama (who i am) seem to advocate genuine platforms of reform and change-Hilary really doesn't seem to have her own 'vision' per se
Madame DeFarge's latest has caused me to re-ask a question about her that does NOT get asked often enough. Name one thing that Hillary has actually accomplished in her PUBLIC career ? NOT a position she's taken or program she's supported that never got passed. Name something she has actually gotten done ?
(Keeping herself and Bill out of prison does not count but I will concede that she has been successful at getting others like Webb Hubbell and the McDougals to take the fall.)
So let's hear it- please point to something that actually got done BECAUSE of Hillary. Anyone ?


The Clinton Admin seems so shady. Didn't they set Bush up for some partial failure? Didn't they do some bad biz with China? I am sure that she will keep up what happened when her husband was in office. I thought China helped fund their campaigns also... Aside from that...I don't see why people would rather have Hillary...everyone I hear about is for Ron or Obama.
Since when are "weenies" likeable ? Humphery was just as jowly as Nixon and only late in the campaign did he try to separate himself from Johnson.
Clinton was FAR from trustworthy in both his campaigns but he was likeable.
Strangely, he got plurality support ( he won both times with LESS than 50 % of the vote) from voters who when polled said he was neither honest nor trustworthy. He won because his POLICY POSITIONS were generallhy popular
AND because he ran against two "tired old men".
I'm not trying to debate, really. I was there. I was informed. It didn't take much to be more likable than Nixon. Humphrey suffered as VP in the shadow of the Cave Troll President LBJ. McGovern suffered because he was a weenie and wayyyy far left at the time, winning only DC and Massachusetts in the electorals. But they were both more likable than Nixon. Nixon was seen as more Presidential than either, and far more Presidential than McGovern.
CLinton won because 1) he was ( is ) a great politician - lets make no mistake about that, 2) he was more "in tune" with the electorate than GB1 and Ross had that wacky factor and 3) the boy can play a crowd. None of those have anything to do w/ likability per se, im just saying I think thats what got him so far.
I think the comparisons to Reagan are valid - they both knew when to zig instead of zag and they both were pragmatic. ANd they could deliver on the stump!!!l And dont think that Reagan didnt zig ( ie change positions - or waffle as they say today ) to get votes - he did and he did it well! ... just my opinion of course....
Now Hillary. oy... Just too much baggage for me. I was tired of the Clinton drama ( and I like Bill ) by the end of his terms that I just dont want anymore. Could SHe be any worse than Bush 2 ... I dont think so but Id rather have Obama.
I voted for Humphrey in my middle school straw poll - I was hounded relentlessly... Remember Nixon squeaked that victory over HHH... Wallace prolly pulled alot of votes away from HHH. Remember back then the south voted Democratic - still sore over the War of Northern Aggression.





regardless of personal preferences I HAVE to vote for Hilary. That's the only way that the federal tax money collected from taxpayers in OTHER states will start flowing INTO New York !!!
I respectfully disagree. It has NEVER worked that way. New York has ALWAYS carried the freight for plenty of other states. Just look at the Medicaid formula where New York pays a far higher share than almost any other state. And it won't change just because Hill-Billary becomes Prez. Too many senators from backwater states rooting around the Congressional feed trough. Too many special interests that Hillary will be beholden to that NEED New York's tax revenues to finance all their wonderful programs.
Did Arkansas benefit from 8 years of Bill ? Hardly. It's still bringing up the rear in all the categories it was when he was Governor .





^^^ your history of the outflow of federal tax dollars from NY taxpayers to pay for projects in other states is exactly correct. However, this time around, Hilary may actually reverse this ... via a new 'tool' in the box. If you check the latest NY statistics, you'll find that one of the fastest growing employment segments in NY state ( or more cynically, one of the ONLY growing employment segments in NY state) is federal civil service jobs - i.e. homeland security agencies, counterterrorism / intelligence agencies etc. If this keeps up for four years, NY might start to resemble California / Arizona / Tennessee in terms of employment / economy funding via the 'import' of federal tax money from other states.
PS Arkansas did get a huge amount of federal spending while Mr. Bill was in the oval office. However, because the nature of that federal spending wasn't all that politically acceptable (the largest federal chunk went to the Pine Bluff Arsenal ... the birthplace of new chemical weapons !) you didn't hear a lot about it in the media. However, the locals knew it was there (it was fairly easy to tell by driving down I65 between Little Rock and Pine Bluff in the 90's and looking at about 4 square miles of orange / purple / dead trees along the side of the road !!!)
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