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Thread: Duke players cleared of all charges

  1. #1
    God/dess anomar's Avatar
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    Default Duke players cleared of all charges

    I'm really kind of troubled and shamed by the effect that this woman's accusations have on perceptions of all of us.

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    God/dess anomar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    You might need to login to see that, so here's this, too:

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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    You beat me to it. Was just reading the news and coming back here to post it.

    But yeah, I agree with you. That woman caused some irreparable damage to the stripping industry with her antics.

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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    Dunno, even today, I'd pay an ass-load of money for the chance to have been a fly on the wall at the party.

    I still think there's more to the story.
    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelGirl View Post
    Oh, and nope, rubbing titties isn't air dancing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    The cut-off age for stripping is when customers stop paying you.

    The end.

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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    Quote Originally Posted by JustJayda View Post
    Dunno, even today, I'd pay an ass-load of money for the chance to have been a fly on the wall at the party.

    I still think there's more to the story.
    No doubt, but even if they said the most fucked up shit you could imagine, would it merit her choice of actions?

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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    Quote Originally Posted by lunchbox View Post
    No doubt, but even if they said the most fucked up shit you could imagine, would it merit her choice of actions?
    That's just it. She should have told the truth and stuck with it, whatever it was. Changing the story over and over and not disclosing certain information hurt her case if she really was raped.

    What I mean is, we'll never know because she lost her case for herself.

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    God/dess JustJayda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    Quote Originally Posted by lunchbox View Post
    No doubt, but even if they said the most fucked up shit you could imagine, would it merit her choice of actions?
    Even if I did believe that , I wouldn't admit it on SW! That's suicide!

    Seriously, (just trying to lighten the mood b/4 it gets tense) No, definately not.
    I could detail why it would be wrong, but I'm gonna make it real plain for everybody to understand:

    I have a brother, I have two sons.
    Quote Originally Posted by MarvelGirl View Post
    Oh, and nope, rubbing titties isn't air dancing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    The cut-off age for stripping is when customers stop paying you.

    The end.

  8. #8
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    They may not be guilty as charged, but I highly doubt they're innocent.

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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah View Post
    They may not be guilty as charged, but I highly doubt they're innocent.
    Based on WHAT ? There is NO EVIDENCE ! No physical evidence. No reliable accuser. No eyewitness. NOTHING ! Worse yet, one of the accused had ATM receipts and a taxi driver who remembered him to PROVE he wasn't even there when the supposed attack went down.

    Nifong should be disbarred and its too bad they're NOT going after the accuser for filing false reports. I hope these guys sue and collect BIG ! Ask Melonie how it feels to be accused of something you didn't do AND have to waste YOUR TIME and YOUR MONEY proving your innocence.

  10. #10
    Sitri
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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    Yea, a real credible witness.. I think some of her ideas should be in hustle hut....


    Crystal Gail Mangum: Profile of the Duke Rape Accuser

    Wednesday, April 11, 2007
    By Michael Y. Park



    Yearbook photo of Crystal Mangum, who graduated from Hillside High School, Durham, N.C., in 1996.

    Family members still disagree on what really happened in 1993. The accuser's father has said he believes his daughter was not raped or injured in that incident, while her mother has said a rape involving three men in Creedmoor did occur, but said it happened when her daughter was 17 or 18; Mangum's ex-husband, Kenneth Nathanial McNeill, has said he believes the 1993 rape accusations are true. Some of the details of the Duke University rape case may never be solved, but one thing is startlingly clear: Crystal Gail Mangum, the woman who accused three college lacrosse players of locking her in a bathroom and raping her, has had a very troubled life.
    Mangum has been identified by name publicly several times, including by lawyers during press conferences on the case.
    According to North Carolina Department of Corrections records, she was born on July 18, 1978, to a truck driver. She grew up the youngest of three children, not far from the house where she claimed she was assaulted in 2006. Durham is a slow-paced Southern town with equally large populations of black and white residents and a history of racial tensions — including those between a wealthy, predominantly white university community and its poorer black neighbors.
    In 1993, when she was 14 years old, Mangum claimed to have been kidnapped by three men, driven to a house in Creedmoor, N.C., 15 miles away from Durham, and raped. She said one of the men was her boyfriend at the time, and was a physically and emotionally abusive man seven years older than she was. Creedmoor Police Chief Ted Pollard said Mangum filed a report on the incident in Aug. 18, 1996, three years after the rapes allegedly took place. The case, however, was not pursued, because the accuser backed away from the charges out of fear for her life, according to her relatives.
    According to her father, the year after the alleged Creedmoor rape, Mangum saw a psychiatrist and took prescription medication for a year because trauma from the assault had left her suicidal.
    After Mangum graduated from high school in 1996, McNeill, then her fiance, encouraged her to join the Navy because she wanted to "see the world," he told various news outlets. She began her two-year active duty in the summer of 1997, marrying McNeill, who is 14 years her senior, in the fall of that year. She was trained to operate radios in Virginia, then the couple drove out to California where she was stationed on an ammunition ship. But she was frequently at sea, leading to ruptures in the marriage. On June 16, 1998, she accused her husband of taking her into a wooded area and threatening to kill her, which he has denied doing. When she failed to appear at a court hearing, the complaint was dismissed. The two separated after 17 months of marriage, and that same year, Mangum was discharged from the Navy, pregnant by a sailor she has begun a relationship with. That man would have another child with her as well, but that relationship wouldn't last.
    By 2002, Mangum seems to have given up her dreams of seeing the world. She was back in her hometown, trying to get a job as a stripper. In June 2002, she was arrested on a multitude of charges while working at a topless dance club called Diamond Girls. According to police, she removed a customer's keys to his taxicab while giving him a lap dance, then stole the taxi while he was in the bathroom. Police chased her at speeds up to 70 miles per hour — frequently in the wrong lane — and when an officer tried to approach her, she barely missed running him over, and struck his patrol car instead. She tried to escape again, but a flat tire ended the second leg of her getaway. Finally in custody, she was found to have a blood-alcohol content of 0.19 (the state limit is 0.0. While being questioned, Mangum passed out and was taken to a hospital.
    In the end, Mangum had racked up 10 charges, including driving while impaired, driving with a revoked license (her license has been suspended three times), eluding police, reckless driving, failure to heed a siren and lights, assault on an officer and larceny of a motor vehicle. In 2003, she pleaded guilty to four misdemeanors: larceny, speeding to elude arrest, assault on a government official and DWI. She served three weekends in jail, was placed on two years' probation and paid $4,200 in restitution and court fees.
    But the portrait of an out-of-control, unstable woman with a drinking problem isn't accurate, according to relatives, who have described Mangum as a hardworking single mom running herself ragged trying to support her children and improve her life. In 2004, she earned an associate's degree from Durham Technical Community College. At the time of the Duke lacrosse rape allegations, she was in her second year as a full-time student at North Carolina Central University, studying police psychology and maintaining a 3.0 average. She had at some point held jobs working at a nursing facility and at a $10.50-an-hour assembly-line job making catalytic reducers.
    But it wasn't a happy life.
    Sometime in the last two years, according to her parents, Mangum suffered a mental breakdown and was taken to a hospital in Raleigh. They said they didn't know what caused the breakdown but said she felt burdened by mounting debts. In 2003, she went to court to force the father of her children to pay child support (the court sided with her and ordered $400 from his monthly paycheck to go to child support). In 2006, Mangum was working as a stripper in at least one club and for one service. She was adamant that she never worked as a prostitute, and told police that in only one instance did she have sex with a customer, a man she thought was "nice." According to employees of clubs she worked at, she was known as a problem dancer, frequently clashing with customers and other dancers and often passing out. At least one of the club workers, however, said he never saw Mangum drink while working.
    As time went on, her romantic life didn't get more stable, either. According to reports, Mangum said she'd had sex with at least three men in the days leading up to the Duke lacrosse incident, including her boyfriend and two of the men who drove her to dancing gigs. Somewhere around this time, she again became pregnant. She gave birth to a premature girl in January 2007.
    But the greatest upheaval in Mangum's life was to come on March 13, 2006. That's when she and 31-year-old Kim Roberts were hired to perform a striptease at the off-campus lacrosse house on North Buchanan Blvd. near Duke.
    Now that all charges against the three players she accused have been dropped, it remains to be seen whether Mangum herself will be the target of any legal retribution on behalf of the players' families.

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    Veteran Member Clark's Avatar
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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/04/11/du...sse/index.html

    The players are suign Nifong, but not their accuser, apparently because they feel sorry for her. From what I can tell, some guys at the the party (though not the ones who were charged) were basically abusive, racist, misogynistic assholes. She got pissed off and did something stupid. It quickly became clear that her story didn't match up with the physical evidence or any other witnesses nor did it match up with the other telligns of her story, but rather than quietly drop the charges and give her a graceful exit, the prosecutor tried to hide the evidence and coach her into giving coherent testimony. it was clear months ago she wasn't really cooperating with the prosecution and didn't want to go through with it anymore. Trying to hide evidence of someone's innocence is about the crummiest thing a prosecutor can do. If you have any doubts as to the truth of the accusations, read the statement from the DA. I am something of a legal junkie and have never seen anything like it. Normally, when prosecutors drop a case, they'll just say they don't think they were likely to get a conviction and leave it at that. This was a statement that the accused were comopletely innocent, there was no evidence a crime had taken place and an apology for the whole affair. Keep in mind this is coming from another prosecutor, and they normally protect their own.

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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Sitri View Post
    Yea, a real credible witness.. I think some of her ideas should be in hustle hut....


    Crystal Gail Mangum: Profile of the Duke Rape Accuser

    Wednesday, April 11, 2007
    By Michael Y. Park



    Yearbook photo of Crystal Mangum, who graduated from Hillside High School, Durham, N.C., in 1996.

    Family members still disagree on what really happened in 1993. The accuser's father has said he believes his daughter was not raped or injured in that incident, while her mother has said a rape involving three men in Creedmoor did occur, but said it happened when her daughter was 17 or 18; Mangum's ex-husband, Kenneth Nathanial McNeill, has said he believes the 1993 rape accusations are true. Some of the details of the Duke University rape case may never be solved, but one thing is startlingly clear: Crystal Gail Mangum, the woman who accused three college lacrosse players of locking her in a bathroom and raping her, has had a very troubled life.
    Mangum has been identified by name publicly several times, including by lawyers during press conferences on the case.
    According to North Carolina Department of Corrections records, she was born on July 18, 1978, to a truck driver. She grew up the youngest of three children, not far from the house where she claimed she was assaulted in 2006. Durham is a slow-paced Southern town with equally large populations of black and white residents and a history of racial tensions — including those between a wealthy, predominantly white university community and its poorer black neighbors.
    In 1993, when she was 14 years old, Mangum claimed to have been kidnapped by three men, driven to a house in Creedmoor, N.C., 15 miles away from Durham, and raped. She said one of the men was her boyfriend at the time, and was a physically and emotionally abusive man seven years older than she was. Creedmoor Police Chief Ted Pollard said Mangum filed a report on the incident in Aug. 18, 1996, three years after the rapes allegedly took place. The case, however, was not pursued, because the accuser backed away from the charges out of fear for her life, according to her relatives.
    According to her father, the year after the alleged Creedmoor rape, Mangum saw a psychiatrist and took prescription medication for a year because trauma from the assault had left her suicidal.
    After Mangum graduated from high school in 1996, McNeill, then her fiance, encouraged her to join the Navy because she wanted to "see the world," he told various news outlets. She began her two-year active duty in the summer of 1997, marrying McNeill, who is 14 years her senior, in the fall of that year. She was trained to operate radios in Virginia, then the couple drove out to California where she was stationed on an ammunition ship. But she was frequently at sea, leading to ruptures in the marriage. On June 16, 1998, she accused her husband of taking her into a wooded area and threatening to kill her, which he has denied doing. When she failed to appear at a court hearing, the complaint was dismissed. The two separated after 17 months of marriage, and that same year, Mangum was discharged from the Navy, pregnant by a sailor she has begun a relationship with. That man would have another child with her as well, but that relationship wouldn't last.
    By 2002, Mangum seems to have given up her dreams of seeing the world. She was back in her hometown, trying to get a job as a stripper. In June 2002, she was arrested on a multitude of charges while working at a topless dance club called Diamond Girls. According to police, she removed a customer's keys to his taxicab while giving him a lap dance, then stole the taxi while he was in the bathroom. Police chased her at speeds up to 70 miles per hour — frequently in the wrong lane — and when an officer tried to approach her, she barely missed running him over, and struck his patrol car instead. She tried to escape again, but a flat tire ended the second leg of her getaway. Finally in custody, she was found to have a blood-alcohol content of 0.19 (the state limit is 0.0. While being questioned, Mangum passed out and was taken to a hospital.
    In the end, Mangum had racked up 10 charges, including driving while impaired, driving with a revoked license (her license has been suspended three times), eluding police, reckless driving, failure to heed a siren and lights, assault on an officer and larceny of a motor vehicle. In 2003, she pleaded guilty to four misdemeanors: larceny, speeding to elude arrest, assault on a government official and DWI. She served three weekends in jail, was placed on two years' probation and paid $4,200 in restitution and court fees.
    But the portrait of an out-of-control, unstable woman with a drinking problem isn't accurate, according to relatives, who have described Mangum as a hardworking single mom running herself ragged trying to support her children and improve her life. In 2004, she earned an associate's degree from Durham Technical Community College. At the time of the Duke lacrosse rape allegations, she was in her second year as a full-time student at North Carolina Central University, studying police psychology and maintaining a 3.0 average. She had at some point held jobs working at a nursing facility and at a $10.50-an-hour assembly-line job making catalytic reducers.
    But it wasn't a happy life.
    Sometime in the last two years, according to her parents, Mangum suffered a mental breakdown and was taken to a hospital in Raleigh. They said they didn't know what caused the breakdown but said she felt burdened by mounting debts. In 2003, she went to court to force the father of her children to pay child support (the court sided with her and ordered $400 from his monthly paycheck to go to child support). In 2006, Mangum was working as a stripper in at least one club and for one service. She was adamant that she never worked as a prostitute, and told police that in only one instance did she have sex with a customer, a man she thought was "nice." According to employees of clubs she worked at, she was known as a problem dancer, frequently clashing with customers and other dancers and often passing out. At least one of the club workers, however, said he never saw Mangum drink while working.
    As time went on, her romantic life didn't get more stable, either. According to reports, Mangum said she'd had sex with at least three men in the days leading up to the Duke lacrosse incident, including her boyfriend and two of the men who drove her to dancing gigs. Somewhere around this time, she again became pregnant. She gave birth to a premature girl in January 2007.
    But the greatest upheaval in Mangum's life was to come on March 13, 2006. That's when she and 31-year-old Kim Roberts were hired to perform a striptease at the off-campus lacrosse house on North Buchanan Blvd. near Duke.
    Now that all charges against the three players she accused have been dropped, it remains to be seen whether Mangum herself will be the target of any legal retribution on behalf of the players' families.
    None of this would amount to a hill of beans if she was truly raped. That's the same as saying "Well, she was a lying, thieving, cheating stripper who was only partially dressed so she was asking for it".

    I'm only upset at the way she handled the events of THIS particular case. BTW, she is not a witness. She was the alleged VICTIM.

  13. #13
    Sitri
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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    "None of this would amount to a hill of beans if she was TRULY raped"????? I think this statement says it all. She wasn't raped according to all of the evidence and the North Carolina Justice Department did not say "Insufficient Evidence" they said "Innocent".

    Therefore the above statement is not true. She is the witness AND the alleged Victum. Unfortunately, she also has a history of false accusations, lying and cheating. Everyone seems to miss the fact that being a stripper is just one thing she does. Her character is her character even if she were an accountant.

    Setting that aside, the controversial issue is the abuse of the justice system by the prosecuter to pursue charges without a real investigation and evidence.

    She is a pathetic creature with a miserable life worthy of sympathy, however, the prosecuter isn't. Let's spend our time defending true injustices and not the nut cases.

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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Sitri View Post
    "None of this would amount to a hill of beans if she was TRULY raped"????? I think this statement says it all. She wasn't raped according to all of the evidence and the North Carolina Justice Department did not say "Insufficient Evidence" they said "Innocent".

    Therefore the above statement is not true. She is the witness AND the alleged Victum. Unfortunately, she also has a history of false accusations, lying and cheating. Everyone seems to miss the fact that being a stripper is just one thing she does. Her character is her character even if she were an accountant.

    Setting that aside, the controversial issue is the abuse of the justice system by the prosecuter to pursue charges without a real investigation and evidence.

    She is a pathetic creature with a miserable life worthy of sympathy, however, the prosecuter isn't. Let's spend our time defending true injustices and not the nut cases.
    Not defending her; just her RIGHT to be heard in the case of an alleged crime regardless of her past behavior.

  15. #15
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    Oh, right, Sitri, you're absolutely right. She grew up broke, made some bad relationship decisions, worked as a topless dancer, and (*gasp*) had sex with a guy she barely knew. OBVIOUSLY she's a lying whore who couldn't possibly have been raped. Those nice young rich jocks and frat boys would NEVER have done anything to harm her; what could I have been thinking?

  16. #16
    Sitri
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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah View Post
    Oh, right, Sitri, you're absolutely right. She grew up broke, made some bad relationship decisions, worked as a topless dancer, and (*gasp*) had sex with a guy she barely knew. OBVIOUSLY she's a lying whore who couldn't possibly have been raped. Those nice young rich jocks and frat boys would NEVER have done anything to harm her; what could I have been thinking?
    If you pull out the sarcasm, I think you are correct.

    And so on..

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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Sitri View Post
    If you pull out the sarcasm, I think you are correct.

    And so on..
    You can't POSSIBLY be saying that, because she has a past, that she could not have been raped. Maybe she wasn't in this case, but it could happen, right?

    That's got to be one of the worst things I've ever heard here. And if I didn't have a strict policy on not putting people on ignore, I'd have put you there.

    Unfreakingbelievable and disgusting.

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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah View Post
    Those nice young rich jocks and frat boys would NEVER have done anything to harm her; what could I have been thinking?
    I'm curious to know what exactly you are implying they did?

    My guess is they were verbally abusive. She chose this to get revenge.

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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    I have no doubt she was sexually assaulted in some manner. Sexual assault doesn't always involve the penis--she could have just as easily been penetrated with an object. There were alot of guys there that night--just because she wasn't able to correctly identify her attacker does not mean that she wasn't attacked. I also have no doubt that because she was a young, black stripper with a troubled past that the defense did whatever it could to discredit her in order to get those rich punks off scott-free. This was a witch-hunt from the very beginning.

    It is also extremely common for victims of sexual assault to have gaps in their memory of the event---it takes time for all the pieces to come back to them. So this whole "changing her story" angle does not wash with me, and doesn't mean she was lying. Just because she had a troubled past, and had been sexually active with other men does not mean that she wasn't sexually assaulted---in fact the two things are not related at all. And did she come forward and say "I lied"? Because until that happens, I'm going to believe her, and chalk this whole travesty up to having a very weak prosecution.

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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Clark View Post
    http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/04/11/du...sse/index.html

    The players are suign Nifong, but not their accuser, apparently because they feel sorry for her. From what I can tell, some guys at the the party (though not the ones who were charged) were basically abusive, racist, misogynistic assholes. She got pissed off and did something stupid. It quickly became clear that her story didn't match up with the physical evidence or any other witnesses nor did it match up with the other telligns of her story, but rather than quietly drop the charges and give her a graceful exit, the prosecutor tried to hide the evidence and coach her into giving coherent testimony. it was clear months ago she wasn't really cooperating with the prosecution and didn't want to go through with it anymore. Trying to hide evidence of someone's innocence is about the crummiest thing a prosecutor can do. If you have any doubts as to the truth of the accusations, read the statement from the DA. I am something of a legal junkie and have never seen anything like it. Normally, when prosecutors drop a case, they'll just say they don't think they were likely to get a conviction and leave it at that. This was a statement that the accused were comopletely innocent, there was no evidence a crime had taken place and an apology for the whole affair. Keep in mind this is coming from another prosecutor, and they normally protect their own.
    Some of what you say is not true at all and some is just raw speculation with no facts behind it.
    Who says the guys were verbally abusive ? Not her fellow dancer at the party.
    Ms. Mangum was falling down drunk and passed out at the house according to her co-worker.
    As late as a week ago, Ms. Mangum was still claiming to have been raped and asked the North Carolina Att. Gen. to proceed with the case
    ( according to today's NYT. )
    The truth is the easiest thing to remember and when your main witness starts changing her story all sorts of bells and whistles start going off and any competent D.A. would immediately take a hard look at the case and completely reconsider the entire matter. Nifong did nothing of the sort and was obviously much more focused on his Primary and General Election and didn't want to risk losing black votes.
    I didn't see anything where the formerly accused players were so solicitious of Ms.Mangum. There's nothing to stop them from suing her ass despite the fact that she doesn't have a pot to piss in. I'd do it anyway and so should they. Just in case she hits the lottery 5 or 10 years from now. Just to prove out once and for all in a public forum what a lying skank she is and was.

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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    Quote Originally Posted by DylanAngel View Post
    None of this would amount to a hill of beans if she was truly raped. That's the same as saying "Well, she was a lying, thieving, cheating stripper who was only partially dressed so she was asking for it".

    I'm only upset at the way she handled the events of THIS particular case. BTW, she is not a witness. She was the alleged VICTIM.
    She was the ONLY WITNESS and the only evidence to the alleged attack.
    Last edited by Eric Stoner; 04-17-2007 at 10:18 AM.

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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    Quote Originally Posted by DylanAngel View Post
    Not defending her; just her RIGHT to be heard in the case of an alleged crime regardless of her past behavior.
    What about the rights of the accused ? What about the presumption of innocence to which they were entitled ? What about the duty of Nifong to pursue justice regardless of whether or not he gets a conviction and regardless of his own petty political ambitions ?

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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    I am so sick and tired of you coming on here and telling people they're WRONG!

    In a debate, there are varying opinions and, as such, cannot be wrong. An opinion is something you have based upon your own FEELINGS.

    As for her being a witness, that is absurd. She filed a complaint of assault against her person. That would make her, and say it with me, an ALLEGED VICTIM. Notice I didn't say, VICTIM, I said ALLEGED VICTIM!!

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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Stoner View Post
    What about the rights of the accused ? What about the presumption of innocence to which they were entitled ? What about the duty of Nifong to pursue justice regardless of whether or not he gets a conviction and regardless of his own petty political ambitions ?
    What in the name of all that is fucking holy are you talking about? I NEVER said they were treated fairly. Go back and read my first posts on the subject.

    All I am arguing is someone's post that she does not deserve the fair treatment, under the law, that is accorded to an alleged victim REGARDLESS OF HER PAST!!!!

    They, as current victims, also have the right to take whatever actions are necessary to recoup their own losses.

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    Default Re: Duke players cleared of all charges

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah View Post
    Oh, right, Sitri, you're absolutely right. She grew up broke, made some bad relationship decisions, worked as a topless dancer, and (*gasp*) had sex with a guy she barely knew. OBVIOUSLY she's a lying whore who couldn't possibly have been raped. Those nice young rich jocks and frat boys would NEVER have done anything to harm her; what could I have been thinking?
    She had unprotected vaginal sex with no less than 5 ( FIVE ! ) different men within a short time BEFORE the alleged attack.
    She let herself be falling down drunk at the party and was stupid enough not to have any security with her.

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