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Thread: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

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    Default Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    Something that's been intriguing me recently.

    Given the fascination most guys who go into strip clubs have with dancers, their thoughts, etc, I'd have expected this site to have a problem with being overrun with assorted SC custy's agog with the excitment of bening able to exchange messages with real live strippers.

    I'll grant you part of the answer is that the site is effectively and actively moderated, but there's got to be more to it than that.

    My personal theory is that the majority of male customers who find this site find the actuality doesn't correspond with their stereotype of a dancer. They'd like to think it's all about the dancer's exhibitionistic streak, and they find out to most dancers it's more a business that anything else.

    To take three random threads from Hustle Hut:

    * 30 second hustle.
    * How to u know a time waster when u see one?
    * Help - my heart is hurting my hustle.

    So, is the relatively low number of male posters on this site (which isn't a bad thing anyway) down to the fact that most guys who go into strip venues don't want to/like to find out the reality behind the illusion?

    Thoughts?

    Phil.

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    Senior Member sleepyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    I stay away from the "hustle hut" section and as a result see the woman, and not the job aspect. In the other sections it's like chillen with my gal friends. I'm not a frequent SC goer anyways.

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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    Well, we do get a lot of guys coming here in the initial phase, but some get banned and some find it boring because we're not what they thought they were (normal women like any other they'd meet).

    I'd expect that cuts it down a bit.

    I think it takes a special guy to be able to hang permanently on SW. You have to be able to take your lumps and be respectful that this is where we go to unwind.

    Most of you gentlemen are fantastic. But, like any other place, there are some that I would completely pass by if they pulled this stuff in the club.

    So, in answer to your OP, I don't think it has to do with bursting the fantasy bubble. It's just that most of the topics we talk about here are just like girl talk they tune out of at home.

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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    I think it has a lot to do with ruining the fantasy aspect of it.

    I dont think some guys cant handle the fact that that we view it as a job so reading certain threads on this site would upset them.

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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    ^^ no thats a really good analogy

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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    I think it is because women are really privileged here; I mean, it's a girl site. I don't think that there are few guys here. I think there are few guys that regularly post. I think the overall review we've gotten from the various trolly sources is "absolutely fascinating". And I don't see how reading this could ruin the stripclub experience unless you were retarded in the first place - I mean most guys realize that we're at work, and at work want to maximize our income etc.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I mean most guys realize that we're at work, and at work want to maximize our income etc.
    Do they?

    My experience (as the proverbial outsider looking in) suggests the opposite.

    (a) I've been interested in body language for approaching 30 years, and I can read it fairly adeptly. I see a lot of guys making flirtation gestures towards dancers who realistically wouldn't give them the time of day outside of the venue. I've always thought this was guys buying into the stereotype and not the reality.

    (b) I've occasionally posted on UK chat groups (which have zero active involvement from dancers) to the effect of "it's a job, not a lifestyle" and been howled down for my pains.

    I once posted that dancers adopted work persona's that could be different from how they behaved in real life. One guy replied (and he was serious) that they could have different persona's, but that the work persona was the real one and I was getting a fake one OTC because the dancer didn't want me to know how much she enjoyed her work!

    (c) If they know it's only work, why are so many guys so persistant in asking for phone numbers and trying for OTC meetings - surely, if they know it's only work, they wouldn't be interesting in OTC activities.

    (d) Ditto, if guys know it's only work, why do a lot of dancers find it more profitable to conceal the fact they've got a bf or hubby?

    I'm not saying there aren't guys who fully realise that it's only work, I'm just saying that type of guy is distinctly outnumbered by those who think its for real.

    Phil.

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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    Im with Phil. I have had some many guys get upset when I wont sit around and chat to them just coz they are "cool". They will belike "chill out" and when I say Im at work they respond with "oh it's just abou tthe mmoney for you".

    In my experience its only the very cool customers who realise that its work and are happy to leave it at that.

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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    most guys couldn't care less....they are the guys that visit a club once avery couple of months.

    the few who are into the hobbie, stick around.

    and yes, for a lot of guys, it ruins the fantasy.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil-W View Post
    Do they?

    My experience (as the proverbial outsider looking in) suggests the opposite.
    Okay... you'll forgive me if I privilege my experience above yours, I'm sure?

    (a) I've been interested in body language for approaching 30 years, and I can read it fairly adeptly. I see a lot of guys making flirtation gestures towards dancers who realistically wouldn't give them the time of day outside of the venue. I've always thought this was guys buying into the stereotype and not the reality.
    Um.. yeah? That's the experience. I don't think even the most jaded want to pay for contact with women who openly dislike them. (Not saying that most women actively dislike most customers - just that flirting is part of what goes on).

    (b) I've occasionally posted on UK chat groups (which have zero active involvement from dancers) to the effect of "it's a job, not a lifestyle" and been howled down for my pains.
    Well - I would posit that those are the retards in question. We have a couple here too - who really think that showing other guys that strippers are really only in it for the money will lead to the shutting down of all strip clubs. Notice - none of us are worried about it, because we don't think there is much here that shock most guys.
    I once posted that dancers adopted work persona's that could be different from how they behaved in real life. One guy replied (and he was serious) that they could have different persona's, but that the work persona was the real one and I was getting a fake one OTC because the dancer didn't want me to know how much she enjoyed her work!
    Okay - if you're trying to convince me that there are a couple of stupid people... preaching to the choir, baby! No, Phil, I know - but really, you are not the only guy who "knows" that strippers work. Most guys are aware.

    (c) If they know it's only work, why are so many guys so persistant in asking for phone numbers and trying for OTC meetings - surely, if they know it's only work, they wouldn't be interesting in OTC activities.
    Because - and this is important - they think they are the exception. Because it's quasi social and sometimes hard to distinguish genuine interest from work related flirtation. Most guys who ask me have some variation of "I realize you are going to say no to this..." and are asking on the "off chance".

    (d) Ditto, if guys know it's only work, why do a lot of dancers find it more profitable to conceal the fact they've got a bf or hubby?
    Because that is part of the flirtation etc., that they are paying for.

    I'm not saying there aren't guys who fully realise that it's only work, I'm just saying that type of guy is distinctly outnumbered by those who think its for real.

    Phil.
    See, and my experience would tell me that it's the opposite - if for no other reason than very few guys are surprised when I refuse to see them out of the club. They are usually like "Oh, well, had to ask."
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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Okay... you'll forgive me if I privilege my experience above yours, I'm sure?
    Of course; you spend far longer in the environment that I, and your experience is more direct than mine - but that won't stop me gently disagreeing with you.

    I'm also aware that our experience is in different environments - you in US lap dancing clubs and me primarily in UK strip pubs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Um.. yeah? That's the experience. I don't think even the most jaded want to pay for contact with women who openly dislike them. (Not saying that most women actively dislike most customers - just that flirting is part of what goes on).
    I don't think most guys will pay for a lap dance from a dancer whom they think is primarily interested in earning money.

    The guy wants to believe it's real, interprets the dancers 'hustle' as flirtarion and flirts right back.

    What's your scoring rate on going up to a guy and saying "Look, I've got a great figure and I'm a great dancer. Hand over $20 and I'll give you a great 5 minutes"?

    That comes across purely as a commercial transaction.

    Nope, you sit down with the guy and try and convince him you like him as part of the selling process. I've always been of the opinion that guys buy dances because they convince themselves the dancer's personal motivations (exhibitionism) outweigh their financial ones.

    If they can't convince themselves, they won't buy a dance.

    (You'll forgive me if I privilige my experience of being a guy above yours, I'm sure )

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Well - I would posit that those are the retards in question. We have a couple here too - who really think that showing other guys that strippers are really only in it for the money will lead to the shutting down of all strip clubs. Notice - none of us are worried about it, because we don't think there is much here that shock most guys.
    I'm going to disagree here. I think there is a lot here that would shock guys. This site is dancers being honest about their motivations and reasons.

    How many guys would spend $300 or $500 on VIP or Champagne if they thought the girls motivation was financial. OK, to some guys that's small change, but to most of us that's a significant expenditure.

    Guys don't spend that amount of money purely to look at a girls figure - they spend it because they're convinced there's more to it than $$$'s. It might be the erotic charge of thinking the girl's getting a kick out of dancing for them, it might be the desire to try for an OTC meeting, but you'll not convince me that a guy will drop $500 purely just for the pleasure of looking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Because - and this is important - they think they are the exception. Because it's quasi social and sometimes hard to distinguish genuine interest from work related flirtation. Most guys who ask me have some variation of "I realize you are going to say no to this..." and are asking on the "off chance".
    I don't think they are the exception. The dancers I know get asked too often and too persistantly for the question to be asked on the offchance.

    There's something about dancers that hits a guy's psyche - you press our erotic buttons because of the job you do - and because of the erotic charge we get from you, a lot of us are willing to suspend disbelief when dealing with dancers.

    Most erotic fantasies are out of reach - we're never going to sleep with that actress - but the 'stripper fantasy' is accessible. You're dancing in front of us telling us how much you're enjoying yourself and we buy into the illusion.

    We want to believe in the illusion, cos that the only way we can justify keeping on spending money.

    Looking at a dancer's figure is a transient experience - all we carry away is memories - but convincing ourselves that "there's more to it" provides us with a rationale as to why we should keep on spending money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Because that is part of the flirtation etc., that they are paying for.
    I don't think many guys realise they're paying for the flirtation. I think they think the dancer has taken a personal liking to them and is behaving accordingly.

    I'm going to put some numbers on this. I'll estimate that dancers actively like 20% of their customers, have neutral feelings on 60% and actively dislike 20% of their customers.

    How many guys (if asked for their opinion) would put themselves in the neutral 60% or the disliked 20%? I'm guessing the great majority would put themselves in the liked 20% and would be mortified to find out they were paying for the flirtation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    See, and my experience would tell me that it's the opposite - if for no other reason than very few guys are surprised when I refuse to see them out of the club. They are usually like "Oh, well, had to ask."
    I think there are levels of persistance.

    At the bottom is "Mr Casual Asker" who buys a dance of two and pops the question on the off-chance. He's not going to be too disappointed with a no.

    Next level up is "Mr Invest 1 Hour in VIP". He's invested $500 in trying for an OTC meeting, and he's going to be a bit more disappointed if he doesn't get it.

    Top level is "Mr Spend Thousands of $$$'s Regular" and he's seriously disappointed when reality sets in. This sort of guy spends serious cash because they believe they have a special relationship with the dancer that transcends money and it can eventually be converted into an OTC relationship.

    These guys are seriously disappointed when reality bites.

    Different dancers attract different proportions of these three levels, and the fact that some of these guys come back at regular intervals to re-ask the OTC question suggests to me that it can be more than a casual 'on-the-offchance' question.

    Phil.

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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil-W View Post
    What's your scoring rate on going up to a guy and saying "Look, I've got a great figure and I'm a great dancer. Hand over $20 and I'll give you a great 5 minutes"?

    That comes across purely as a commercial transaction.
    I don't phrase it exactly like that. But it works fine for me.

    Nope, you sit down with the guy and try and convince him you like him as part of the selling process. I've always been of the opinion that guys buy dances because they convince themselves the dancer's personal motivations (exhibitionism) outweigh their financial ones.
    No - I sit down and convince them that they like me.
    If they can't convince themselves, they won't buy a dance.

    (You'll forgive me if I privilige my experience of being a guy above yours, I'm sure )
    I'll privilege your experience of being a guy - but I won't privilege you as being an expert on customers because I deal with more of them than you do, and I actually have to sell the dances to them, and I feel pretty strongly that I know how I do it.

    Guys don't spend that amount of money purely to look at a girls figure - they spend it because they're convinced there's more to it than $$$'s. It might be the erotic charge of thinking the girl's getting a kick out of dancing for them, it might be the desire to try for an OTC meeting, but you'll not convince me that a guy will drop $500 purely just for the pleasure of looking.
    Okay - but note how similar you sound to the guy you were mocking in your last post, who would just not entertain, in the face of your superior expertise, that dancers were not all exhibitionists. You're just adamantly repeating yourself without really addressing anything I said at all. I don't think they are paying for the pleasure of looking (or in our case, touching). I think they are paying for a good time. I don't think they are paying because they under a misapprehension of what dancers do.

    I don't think they are the exception. The dancers I know get asked too often and too persistantly for the question to be asked on the offchance.
    Phil - the fact that we are asked persistently doesn't mean that the guy doesn't think it is an off chance. This is a perspective issue. It is rare that a guy is seriously disappointed when I say no, and it rare that he even has a serious or real expectation that I'm going to say yes. Plus - a guy thinking that he in particular has just charmed the pants off me is much, much different than a guy thinking that I'm not generally in it for money.

    We want to believe in the illusion, cos that the only way we can justify keeping on spending money.
    Okay, I don't think we need to keep doing this - I just disagree. My experience with my customers tell me that they are not, by and large, stupid and they know what I do. I do not spend time with customers encouraging illusions, and generally the way they interact with me doesn't lead me to believe that they are labouring under these delusions. Like I said - I'm pretty sure I know how I sell dances and I think I'm in a fairly good position to judge how I interact with customers and how they interact with me. It sounds to me like you have a weird investment in being, like, the only guy who "gets" it; you're not, Phil. Our customers aren't retarded just because we get them turned on.
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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil-W View Post
    Nope, you sit down with the guy and try and convince him you like him as part of the selling process. I've always been of the opinion that guys buy dances because they convince themselves the dancer's personal motivations (exhibitionism) outweigh their financial ones.
    Isn't that a tenet of a good salesperson in any line of work?

    I've been going to clubs for 12 years now, and from the get-go I've never had a problem with realizing that the motivation for the dancer to play her role was a purely financial one. I've never spent more money on a gal in hopes that it would get me anywhere, except a bit higher on her priority list when she spots me in the club.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil-W View Post
    I think there is a lot here that would shock guys. This site is dancers being honest about their motivations and reasons.
    As far as any guys finding the content of SW shocking, well, that content wasn't meant for their dissemination anyway. If curiosity is going to kill the cat, then don't be so curious.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    probably not as many guys because

    1) cant see live naked girls on here
    2) they are not grinding on you

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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil-W View Post
    What's your scoring rate on going up to a guy and saying "Look, I've got a great figure and I'm a great dancer. Hand over $20 and I'll give you a great 5 minutes"?
    Phil.





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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish View Post

    As far as any guys finding the content of SW shocking, well, that content wasn't meant for their dissemination anyway. If curiosity is going to kill the cat, then don't be so curious.
    I, for one, enjoy the gritty, brutal, in-the-trenches honesty. In fact, I make a point of reading a few SW threads before every club visit. Even though I consider myself a fairly competent clubmeister, the facts of life reminder does help bolster my emotional kevlar enabling me to return home unscathed most of the time.

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    Once again I have embraced my addiction and have put off the moral dilemma to another day.

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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    JMO, I think guys just don't feel the need to communicate as much or really understand their surroundings that much.
    The more I see, the less I know, the more I like to let it go! - RHCP

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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    I used to post on the pink site quite a bit back when it first launched (wow - how many years has it been?) I slowly migrated over to the blue site for a while, and now I only drop by each from time to time.

    Ultimately I started reading and posting on the pink site because I had questions and sought answers. Then slowly over time (maybe three years) I learned that if you have questions about a car dealership, the car salesman is the last person on the planet to ask. Ask the people who've bought a car from that dealership. So I migrated over to the blue site for a small increase in what I felt was the accuracy of the answers posted. But I still visited both frequently.

    Then something changed on the pink site. I found increasing hostility in posts, and it was lowering my opinion of people (I started seeing dancers the same way I viewed car salesmen, hence the analogy above). Combine that with a sizeable, but minority portion of the pink site who said they'd prefer it if men didn't post here, and it was time. I'm not here to cause grief (I deal with enough of that in my daily life) so I migrated more fully over to the blue site and tried to isolate my postings to the Customer Conversation forum on the pink site, where it seemed more appropriate for me to still post.

    I learned all I was probably going to, with many questions still remaining. But I had met some good people and enjoyed the blue forum and cross-site chat room, so I stayed on. Work took over more and more of my free time, and after a few nasty incidents on these sites I left. Now I cruise by from time to time, and came back here most recently following my first club visit in a half a year or so to post a trip report.
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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    Holy shit!?!? Long time no see stat.

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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    I'd argue that there are actually a lot of male posters that visit this site. How many times have there been a "Does She Like Me?" thread from a newbie? Maybe the question should be why aren't more guys sticking around?

    For these guys, I'd have to agree with Phil that the reality ruins their fantasy. But I would theorize that the availability of porn on the internet eliminates the need for them to seek out strippers on the web. These guys are probably more concerned about their own self gratification than contributing to a message board. For those who still desire to discuss strip clubs and dancers while remaining ignorant/oblivious to the business side, they'll end up seeking other boards like SCL or TUSCL.

    I'm more inclined to agree with Jenny that the majority of guys understand that the girls are there to make money first. How often does the "Wanna Dance?" approach work? If I accept an offer for a dance from this approach, it doesn't mean that I think "Wow, she must really like me!" It just means I wanted a dance.

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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    [quote=FBR;1041607]
    I, for one, enjoy the gritty, brutal, in-the-trenches honesty. In fact, I make a point of reading a few SW threads before every club visit. Even though I consider myself a fairly competent clubmeister, the facts of life reminder does help bolster my emotional kevlar enabling me to return home unscathed most of the time.

    Amen...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    *Plain women know more about men than beautiful ones do. But beautiful women don't need to know about men. It's the men who have to know about beautiful women.

    **A Code of Honor: Never approach a friend's girlfriend or wife with mischief as your goal. There are just too many women in the world to justify that sort of dishonorable behavior. Unless she's really attractive.




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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    Think about how guys are going to find this place. Most guys who Google 'strippers' are surfing for porn. This place isn't going to appeal to those guys. Some of them are going to stay around and try and troll. Most of the trolls just throw a couple of grenades to try and cause some fast trouble but the mods here are pretty ruthless towards that kind of thing and they get banned quickly. Some of the guys go for the long troll but after a while they realize that they're surrounded by women and what kind of guy wants to look like an ass in front of a lot of attractive women? So most of them leave and the few that are left get incorporated into the site.

    In the end most of the guys who post here either are trying to understand a particular dancer they're associating with or just guys who are interested in understanding how things work.

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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    I agree with Phil. Guys do want to believe that a dancer wants to dance for him because she likes him and not because she wants his money. I don't blame the guy for having a fantasy like this one. What pisses me off is when guys get mad at me for being upfront and telling them I need to go make money if they start wasting my time. It's like they are actually surprised that I am in the strip club because it's my job and not because he is so cool. I think they guys' understanding of the dancer's role in the club depends on his intellectual and cultural level. I noticed that most guys in a place like NY don't have a problem with a dancer approaching them with a "wanna dance" line. Nykers are used to straightforward attitude and most of them realise that the dancers are their to earn a living and not to fool around. Whereas where I am at now, in Texas, most guys want a dancer to hang out with them first before being asked for a dance. So many of them get soooo dissapointed when they ask "is all just about $ for you" and I say "hell, yeah, what else do you think I am here for? Do you go to work just to hang out or do you want to actually make a living? " I make a point of telling them exactly what I think, I don't care if it ruins their fantasy. I think only a stupid guy may genually believe a dancer is in the club just to show of her body and hook up with guys. When I am there, I make sure I make the best use of my time. Guys have no idea how much it hurts to be in a loud, smoky envoronment on those 8 inch heels for 8 hours a night, dealing with drunks, time wasters and assholes.
    I have the best time with the customer who understands that I am there to work, doesn't waste my time and doesn't ask to meet me OTC. I may spend a few extra minutes with him if he respects my time and boundaries. Otherwise, I'm gone with the wind.
    I think the more the guy is realistic about the expectation from a strip club experience, the better time he'll have. I'll say he's paying $ to see naked women dance and that's it, it's that easy!

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    It's not too much reality, since the reality of the sex industry can largely be matter of perspective. It's too much insight into the world of stripping that shatters their paradigm of SCs and strippers. A casual reading of any of the threads in here shows a much broader variety of strippers and their interests, intellect, motivations and personalities, none of which is supported by the dreck that's proffered by popular culture as authorities on the sex industry. For example, there are no Jennies in the stripping world of popular culture; who ever heard of a stripper that can deconstruct absolutely anything, even in her string and platforms? Aren't all strippers substance-abusing baby factories with a sixth-grade education and a boyfriend in a band that deals meth?

    The site merely shows that strippers are people too (shocking, I know) and everything that goes along with that, good, bad and ugly. That's not exactly what a lot of people want to think or feel about SCs when they visit them, and frankly, so long as they have realistic expectations within the unrealistic environment of the SC, there's no problem with that. The whole point of an SC is supposed to be uncomplicated companionship with women, and if you're thinking about it too much, you've already defeated the purpose of your visit.
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

    William F. Buckley, Jr.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Few than expected guys on this site - too much reality?

    OK, I haven't got nearly the patience to read this entire thread so forgive me if this has been said already.
    I like reality but I don't really think a strip club is the place to apply it beyond maintaining simple etiquette and common courtesy. I have no more trouble separating fantasy from reality at a strip club than most of the dancers I know do. That doesn't mean I can't have a great time with a great woman.
    What I read here and even in Blue does nothing to alter my opinion of what goes on in a club and why. I understand why the ladies are there but the smart ones also understand why I am there. There is no reason why this mutual understanding can't benefit both of us.

    What have I learned reading here? Not much really. I've spent years hanging around in clubs and chatting with beautiful intelligent women so seeing dancers talking and thinking clearly in this forum comes as no surprise to me.

    Jay's analogy struck me as right on target.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    yoda, I want you so bad it aches in the swimsuit area.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophia_Starina View Post
    Sophia_Starina is a sensible stripper...Naked all the way.....
    Quote Originally Posted by tempest666 View Post
    Double team! 2 latinas with big tits!!

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