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Thread: Judge bans girl from stripping

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    Featured Member Sinder's Avatar
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    Default Judge bans girl from stripping

    I was trying find the article on-line, but nothing came up. It happend here in my town of Sarnia.

    A 20yr old female was found in possesion of marijuana and charged with possesion. She was not busted at work, but on her way home with friends. At the trial, the Judge(who is female) told the girl that she is ordering her to find an new line of work and is not to return to stripping.


    This article pissed me off as it sends a message to our society that stripping=drug use. It just reinforces bad stereotypes. So if the girl worked at Burger King and was busted, would she have to quit flipping burgers because flipping burgers turned her into a pothead? I'll see if I can't find the article and scan or something.

    What do you think of the Judge's decision?

  2. #2
    BrunetteGoddess
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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    I think it's bogus; I know that judge would NEVER order the girl to stop flipping burgers if she was busted and working at BK.

    I also think that this is not the best judgement on a judicial official's part; they are supposed to be impartial, not using obvious personal vendettas and stereotypes to dole out punishment.

  3. #3
    Cally
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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    Wow I never heard of that... honestly I think its retarded... betcha the judge smokes weed... hell almost everyone in Sarnia is a pot head lol...

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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    Whhhaatt? Not any of that makes much sense to me. Who gets busted for marijuana possession in Ontario anymore? Like, ever? Besides dealers/ traffickers?

    Last I heard there was some law-in-limbo, loophole situation whereby Ontario residents could be in possession of small amounts of marijuana 'legally' (or better to put it, not quite illegally). I mean, that was a few years ago and it's possiby been taken care of...but honestly, people smoke weed out in the open around here ALL THE TIME.

    That is some weird shit. And no matter what, how could a dope charge give a judge a right to ban her from a legal form of employment? Sounds fishy. Unless it was 'recommended'...

    I'm curious to see Jenny's take, since she's more up on the law stuff.

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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    Is that consititutional?? That sounds a little excessive... wow

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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    Our constitution is different (our Charter's got this "notwithstanding clause" that I never really understood, and also this preamble that basically seems to give someone a way to not always follow the rest of the rights & freedoms in 'extreme' cases) but it doesn't sound legal, that's for sure.

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    hmmm... well I assumed the constitution would differ slightly, but it just doesn't sound like something that should be legal! I would be pissed off if I was this chick!!!!

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    molly - the notwithstanding clause can't be applied to individual decisions; it applies to legislation. Interestingly, it has never been invoked at the federal level; it can't be applied here.

    My understanding is that a few years ago they changed the amount you had to possess? I don't actually know the difference, unfortunately. I've never been a smoker so I don't know what is a "normal" amount for a person to possess. But 30 grams is the difference between an indictable offence and summary conviction.

    While I don't think it is cool for a judge to cavalierly take someone's livelihood, I don't really see that it is a constitutional issue; like "I think I have a s.12 claim because she told me not to go back to the strip club instead of giving me 6 months in jail"? Substantively, that seems kind of weak. I mean, people convicted of alcohol related offences could be told not to go to bars; and judges have a certain amount of discretion in determining conditions that they think will help keep people out of jail.

    And... this is not a stereotype. Drugs, ESPCIALLY cannabis, are more present and more used in strip clubs than in Burger King. I mean, I'm sure the good people at burger king, smoke, but saying the environment is the same is just silly.

    Sinder, I appreciate your irritation, and I agree - like I said, taking someone's livelihood ESPECIALLY when the livelihood is low skilled and she may not be able to easily find an alternative should not be a light decision. But - say a child molester was barred from his job coaching peewee hockey. Does that send a message saying that coaching hockey = molestation or that this particular job is not appropriate for this particular individual? Before you say - I agree the situations are not equivalent, and that I've eluded to a much graver set of considerations. I'm just saying that saying that one particular person shouldn't work in one particular environment might be saying more about that particular interaction or, indeed, that particular person than the environment.
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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    Actually, yeah, that all kinda makes sense. If it's still at 30 grams, and she was carrying that much or more, she had to have been a dealer. I mean, I hardly ever smoke pot, and I don't buy it myself (when I do smoke, it's just from other people). But I know that even five or ten grams is more than enough for a single buyer to plausibly have on hand at any given time.

    And so if she were a dealer, it makes sense telling her to stay away from the clubs where dealing is easier to do (I don't know about other Ontario bars, but around here they smoke more marijuana than cigarettes...it seems almost as important to some dancers as drinking...'helps them onstage', etc). I've known more than a few girls who make more money dealing than dancing.

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    Featured Member Sinder's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    I do agree with what your saying Jenny. I think the whole title of the article is what fired me up the most.

    I have to ask my Pa if he still has the paper from that day. If so, I will copy the article for further discussion!

    And yeah, ALOT of Sarnia people smoke pot....I am NOT one of them, but I found out my sister is one of the more popular dealers...go figure.

  11. #11
    Lola Rose
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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    I'd guess maybe just while she's on probation she's not allowed to work in an adult industry or liquor serving enviroment. Pretty standard.

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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinder View Post
    .I am NOT one of them, but I found out my sister is one of the more popular dealers...go figure.
    I would edit that away for your sister's sake!

    And I don't really think that is all that much weed really. 5 to 10 grams? If she were to buy a quarter which is 7 grams, that would be about $50-100, depending on where you are and the quality of the weed. Not really all that much for personal. She probably went to work, made some money, then stopped by her dealers to buy some and go home and relax with her friends. Did she get charged with just possession or possession with intent to distribute? I'm pretty sure for such a small amount it would have to be bagged up separately to get charged with intent. Still I think it sucks, there's plenty of people that smoke plenty and would never work in a strip club. I'm surprised that happened in Canada too. I've heard most cops will just take it or make you throw it away, esp if you're a hot stripper chick! Who thinks it was a female cop that busted her?!
    Last edited by LatinaRose; 04-22-2007 at 02:13 AM. Reason: ETA: Damn, I just re-read that and realized I sound like such a pothead! :) <<we need a smilie with a smoke

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    Featured Member xoxoGracexoxo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    And... this is not a stereotype. Drugs, ESPCIALLY cannabis, are more present and more used in strip clubs than in Burger King. I mean, I'm sure the good people at burger king, smoke, but saying the environment is the same is just silly.
    For once, I disagree with you. Have you ever worked at a Burger King? Any any fastfood place or restaurant? I've worked in quite a few. Pot-smoking has been constant and universal among kitchen and wait staff at every food-service job I've ever had. The strip clubs I've worked at are tame by comparison.

    Sounds to me like a bogus ruling. I mean, maybe -- maybe -- the inconvenience of losing the job will make the girls reconsider her life choices re cannabis, but if she does want to keep smoking, she can find it and smoke it somewhere else. To think that getting the girl out of the club is going to keep her on the straight and narrow is pretty naive on the judge's part.

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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    I have never heard of such a decision!

    She should appeal it.

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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    Wow, I can't believe a judge would actually rule that way. Whack!!
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    The end.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xoxoGracexoxo View Post
    For once, I disagree with you. Have you ever worked at a Burger King? Any any fastfood place or restaurant? I've worked in quite a few. Pot-smoking has been constant and universal among kitchen and wait staff at every food-service job I've ever had. The strip clubs I've worked at are tame by comparison.
    I've never worked at a Burger King. But seriously - when strangers in town want to find drugs, are they more likely to ask strippers or Burger King employees? In most Burger King's are the signs in the back saying "If you have drugs you will be fined"? It's not an equivalent environment; if you are claiming that it is, in fact, equivalent, you might consider that the intuition to the contrary is extremely widespread, even in strip clubs.

    I don't think it would be intended to function like "Without being in a strip club she will have no access to drugs." I think it would be more like "without this environment of unusually high temptation she might be more successful not smoking drugs." You may still think it is wrong - I kind of agree, actually. I mean, it is her job, and I think that a more serious set of considerations should be at work before depriving her of it; especially when it is very possible that her only real alternative will be working in Burger King. But I don't think you can that it is unsound.
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    Veteran Member SexyGemini's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    Appeal, appeal, appeal. A judge ordering her from her away from this line of work? WTF? It's a job. Period.
    I comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable.

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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I've never worked at a Burger King. But seriously - when strangers in town want to find drugs, are they more likely to ask strippers or Burger King employees? In most Burger King's are the signs in the back saying "If you have drugs you will be fined"? It's not an equivalent environment; if you are claiming that it is, in fact, equivalent, you might consider that the intuition to the contrary is extremely widespread, even in strip clubs.

    I don't think it would be intended to function like "Without being in a strip club she will have no access to drugs." I think it would be more like "without this environment of unusually high temptation she might be more successful not smoking drugs." You may still think it is wrong - I kind of agree, actually. I mean, it is her job, and I think that a more serious set of considerations should be at work before depriving her of it; especially when it is very possible that her only real alternative will be working in Burger King. But I don't think you can that it is unsound.
    My opinion on the food industry is radically different, mainly from having seen it first hand. I used to waitress at a high end restaurant and lemme tell you one thing - there was so much frigin drug use there than I have ever seen at any club. Chefs doing lines of coke off a dinner plate, busboys smoking weed out back, waitresses were doing ecstasy. No matter how many people the boss fired, the next guy who came along would have the same drug in his pocket. Most of these people started at places like BK or Mickey D's, since it was easier to get drugs there - a dealer would come through the drive through, a few extra dollars would be passed and bingo! Drugs galore! At my club, at least, Ive seen one, maybe two girls doing lines of coke and only one girl who smoked weed before work. It seems that the restaurant industry is more into drugs than strip clubs. At a restaurant, though, it is well hidden. Most patrons just dont get a chance to see the behind-the-scenes stuff. The Chefs put in 14 to 16 hour days and use the drugs to keep themselves awake. The busboys do almost nothing, so in their spare time, they smoke up. The waitresses have to deal with clients who have a stick up their ass 24/7, so they make it so they could always have a smile on their face.

    Maybe my club is just low on the drug use, but out of the 50 or so people who worked at this restaurant, I'd say a good 60-70% of them did drugs in the back. Maybe it was just that restaurant, but from what I understood, it was a very popular thing to do in the restaurant industry...

    But anyways, I rambled...

    I think that the judge made a poor choice. This may be the woman's only job. She may not even have her HS diploma. Taking her away from an enviornment that has temptation may work, but it doesnt eliminate the fact that drugs will abound in any atmosphere she decides to go into...drugs, unfortunately, have become a huge part of todays society, in developed nations, especially. No matter where she goes, she will probably run into a shitload of drugs. I think that, instead of taking her job from her, the judge should have required some sort of drug rehab program. You can take her away from a strong drug enviornment...but its not the only drug enviornment out there. There are thousands more jobs where she could get back into it. Its not a very proactive approach to keeping the girl off drugs.
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    Veteran Member alenadowns's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    In most Burger King's are the signs in the back saying "If you have drugs you will be fined"? It's not an equivalent environment
    Incorrect! My daughters friend works at the BK here...and there is no sign of that nature posted anywhere in the building! It is stated in the hiring package that, "drugs are not tolerated.", but that is the only mention of it.

    I personally, have had contracts from every province in Canada.....Many clubs across Canada now have it included in contracts and posted in the changeroom & bathrooms, and on the front door....."Any person caught possessing, using or selling drugs in this establishment will be charged and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law."
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    Featured Member xoxoGracexoxo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    you might consider that the intuition to the contrary is extremely widespread, even in strip clubs.
    Well, I won't argue with you there. Most people who have never worked at a restaurant or a strip club would say that drug use is higher at the latter. That's a stereotype, and obviously this judge subscribed to it. After all, strip clubs are dens of vice where nice people never go, whereas restaurants are classy.

    The worst drug use I've ever seen at a club is girls who smoke pot before they get to work, and a dancer who once offered me some Xanax. I know there are tweakers and addicts where I work now, but they don't do it at work, or if they do they are subtle about it. Every restaurant I've worked at, on the other hand, has had at least one major drug dealer working there and selling to staff. And like I said, drug use is constant and very much in the open. The work is stressful and fast-paced, the shifts are long, and (like strippers) the employees get paid in cash that is easily converted into weed, coke, x, speed -- anything that keeps you energetic and happy in the face of all the asshole customers.

    Most strip clubs and most restaurants have official policies against drugs, because, duh, drugs are illegal. The difference is that I've actually seen clubs enforce their drug policies, because (at least around here) they have law enforcement looking over their shoulder.

    Sounds to me like the judge who made the ruling was acting out of the purest prejudice and is pretty damn ignorant of the world outside his/her gated community.

  21. #21
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    Okay, there are a couple things wrong with what you are saying here.

    a) I don't want to get into an argument on whether what you are saying is true; but I do suspect that you were working in a particularly drug rife environment. I actually just emailed three friends who have worked long term in hospitality in a variety of establishments in a variety of towns, and the two who have responded said that they have never worked in an environment that tweaked out. I'm just saying that perhaps your particular experience is not the norm.

    b) Obviously my experience of drugs in a strip club is different than yours; and again, I think that the claim that drugs are not more present in strip clubs than other work environment is naive at best, and apologist at worst. Honestly, I find it hard to believe that anyone (and I mean anyone here) would be positing the low drug presence of strip clubs as a positive element of working in one in any context outside of this.

    Also keep in mind that acknowledging that strip clubs have a lot of drugs in them is not the same as assuming that every dancer or everyone present in the club is using them.

    c) Even assuming that your experience was the norm, the juxtaposition between strip clubs and restaurants was our's, not the judge's. The fact that, in your scenario, drug use is higher in restaurants does not mean drugs are not highly present and highly available in strip clubs, nor does it mean that knowing that and acknowledging that is a stereotype. It simply means that maybe someone out there needs to do some kind of expose on the restaurant industry. It doesn't impact the viability of this sentence.

    d) Prejudice is different from stereotype. If the judge were working from prejudice she would not likely have told the girl to stay out of strip clubs rather than send her to prison. Like something to keep in mind that the girl probably got a break and the girl LIKELY (I'm not sure of this, but from what I read of the Act) agreed to the condition rather than face a "real" sentence. The judge was giving her a break; not victimizing her. If the chick really wanted to face a fine and jail time rather than get a new job, that option was probably open to her.
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    Featured Member xoxoGracexoxo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I actually just emailed three friends who have worked long term in hospitality in a variety of establishments in a variety of towns, and the two who have responded said that they have never worked in an environment that tweaked out. I'm just saying that perhaps your particular experience is not the norm.
    Wow. You are very committed to being right about this. I should probably just surrender now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    b) Obviously my experience of drugs in a strip club is different than yours; and again, I think that the claim that drugs are not more present in strip clubs than other work environment is naive at best, and apologist at worst. Honestly, I find it hard to believe that anyone (and I mean anyone here) would be positing the low drug presence of strip clubs as a positive element of working in one in any context outside of this.
    Oh, I certainly wouldn't argue that strip clubs are a healthy, drug-free environment. Neither are they a good place for children or an appropriate place for a church outing. There are drugs in club -- more than at the average office job, I'm sure. But maybe not more than at the other low-skills jobs where this girl is likely to end up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    It simply means that maybe someone out there needs to do some kind of expose on the restaurant industry. It doesn't impact the viability of this sentence.
    Oh, come on, Jenny. I always heard Canada was a nice place with relatively few social problems, but do they just not have drugs up there or something? There is drug use at restaurants. There is drug use in strip clubs. To my knowledge, there is drug use among grocery store clerks, gas station attendents, video arcade clerks, and pretty much any other of the many low-skills jobs I've held in my time. It's related to class and income-level, not the particular local in which one works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Like something to keep in mind that the girl probably got a break and the girl LIKELY (I'm not sure of this, but from what I read of the Act) agreed to the condition rather than face a "real" sentence. The judge was giving her a break; not victimizing her. If the chick really wanted to face a fine and jail time rather than get a new job, that option was probably open to her.

  23. #23
    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xoxoGracexoxo View Post
    Wow. You are very committed to being right about this. I should probably just surrender now.
    Believe it or not, I was just really interested. I had no idea that restaurants were such a hard core drug culture.

    There is drug use at restaurants. There is drug use in strip clubs. To my knowledge, there is drug use among grocery store clerks, gas station attendents, video arcade clerks, and pretty much any other of the many low-skills jobs I've held in my time. It's related to class and income-level, not the particular local in which one works.
    Wow. And you accuse the judge of stereotype and prejudice. So, you're not stereotyping strippers, just poor people?

    Look, I'm not saying (and I doubt the judge is saying) that the strip club is the only place to get drugs. But a bar is not the only place to get alcohol - yet someone convicted of care and control might still legitimately be told to stay out of them. It's a confluence of environment/availability/temptation. And as I said, while I agree that there should be something a little graver at hand than possession of cannabis to deprive someone of her livelihood, I don't think the sentence is untenable and I'm explaining why. I think that you might be inflating the decision into "the judge obviously hates strippers" in order to get yourself worked up about a perceived insult. Like I said - if the judge really hated strippers, she could have given her jail time.
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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    Quit fighting, you two, you're both crusaders for justice, and Jenny, if you want to accuse Grace of "stereotyping" the poor you are way off base. I'm going to throw out my own stereotype here and say that I think actual drug use at and on the job is probably more prevalent at video stores, convenience stores, etc. than at say fashion boutiques. But who knows? I mean, isn't the highest rate of drug addiction amongst doctors?

    Damn, Jenny, you haven't read Kitchen Confidential? Restaurants are notorious for insane amounts of drug use. The biggest cokeheads I've known have been waitstaff, not strippers. I have to back up Grace on this one -- there is at least as much if not more drug use going on in restaurants as in strip clubs. At least in our American cities. I mean, I'll say there are more drugs in a strip club than in a retail environment, sure, but I think most bars and restaurants could go toe to toe with 'em.

    Anyhow, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask a drug dealer not to work in a stripclub. My problem is more with the law that makes pot illegal and wastes public resources on crap like this.
    Last edited by Susan Wayward; 04-23-2007 at 11:38 AM.

  25. #25
    TheSexKitten
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    Default Re: Judge bans girl from stripping

    When my boyfriend worked at Vons there was a bagger who would sell coke on the job. To customers.


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