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Thread: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

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    Default All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    Ok, I'm a little tipsy...I never drink, but when I do, wheewewww...so bear with me; I needed to rant.

    The club I sometimes work at, supposedly the best in town and "voted #1 in Quebec, yadda yadda"...I called the manager to book for next week. He said "there are some new rules since you left..."

    Now, keep in mind this place already was filled with scheduling rules unheard of around here, such as: if you work nights, you have to work min. 3 shifts a week, you have to work 1 day shift per week (which can start as late as five, but still), you have to work either monday or saturday every week..

    now these are the rules I already knew were in place, but NOW there are additional rules: you have to work one sunday per month, min., and one saturday per month that starts at 7 (instead of before 10).

    Gawd. Plus, if you're even a minute late on the floor, you get in shit.

    I dunno. I'm gonna go in this week, but if the business isn't much better than where I currently dance (a place with NO schedules whatsoever, and that despite the lack of rules amazingly is not over-crowded even as much as rules-place), then forget it. Prestige and pretty place or not, this shit is annoying. I could just get a regular job if I wanted to be bitched at about scheduling, you know?

    So how much would you ladies put up with? Do those 'rules' sound a little ridiculous, or is it just me, because I'm spoiled and stuff?

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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    They all sound reasonable to me. It's the only reasonable way to keep a lot of girls working on the "shit shifts", and to balance out the shifts per day, and days per week. If all the hot girls only worked the nights, oh but only weekends, and not before 10pm, then the customers who come in for the rest of the times that the establishment is open would have shit to look at. And you really can't count on "oh some girls will want those shifts".... it won't always work out in favor of the club... or even the customers.
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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    Fuck no - I hate rules. I won't work at Christie's just b/c they make you wait forever to leave.

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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    Hmm. I hate rules. I wouldn't agree to it. I left a club once because they said that they had a "special" and I wasn't allowed to opt out of it (and I actually complained - "You might have told me this BEFORE I changed" and flounced on out). I wouldn't do it.
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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaigeDWinter View Post
    They all sound reasonable to me. It's the only reasonable way to keep a lot of girls working on the "shit shifts", and to balance out the shifts per day, and days per week. If all the hot girls only worked the nights, oh but only weekends, and not before 10pm, then the customers who come in for the rest of the times that the establishment is open would have shit to look at. And you really can't count on "oh some girls will want those shifts".... it won't always work out in favor of the club... or even the customers.
    Paige that is not the way it works in Ontario. We don't really have the gruesome abuses you guys have down there. If the management wants you to work a shift, they use incentive - that is, they pay you. If not enough girls want to work it, they just have to pay you more. Things working out "in favour of the club or customer" is not really meant to excuse labour abuse. The club has negotiating power in terms of waiving fees, remuneration, providing change rooms, favoured stage time (for those girls that care), providing drivers, free drinks, free food etc. It seems reasonable to you because you guys are used to being treated like crap. We're not. Sorry - I get worked up about this. But these labour issues apply to us too.
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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    I don't know, I guess with what Jenny said maybe it's unreasonable for up there. But down here, we have the same kind of stuff alot of places, so I don't think it's that big of a deal.

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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    Yeah, I guess why it bothers me is that it's just not the norm around here, and there are SO MANY dancers in Eastern Ontario/ Quebec, it's flat out unnecessary. The thing is, I like those 'shit shifts' like Sundays and early Saturday nights because there are usually fewer girls, and I make more. But if he insists that so many girls come in at those times, those times will be absolutely worthless. It's not gonna make more customers come in, not at all. The customers here? They usually work around their hockey schedules, and nothing else.

    And the other place I work, the 'shadier' spot, with zero scheduling rules...they always have girls! And never too many girls. It seems to just work itself out that way. (Plus the fees are lower, and I can dance with songs with swear words...the other place is so anal). Because we're not moronic, and we go when/ where there is money to be had, most often. So all those rules don't seem to work anyway....Or else it's Adam Smith's invisible hand...who knows.

    So like I said, I'll try it out, but if the money is not better, I'll put up with the place with bad lights and busted bathroom locks for the convenience.

    I didn't realize Southern strippers were used to this crap. To me, half the reason I dance is to have a flexible schedule.

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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    LatinaRose said it for me: "Fuck no"! One of the best things about stripping is not having a schedule. There's many clubs I won't work at because they want a scehdule. There's too many other clubs out there w/o them. I think if a club has enough girls and good looking ones at that, they don't need a schedule. I think the shit clubs have schedules.

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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    I've dealt with rules at most clubs I've worked at. And I think it helps the clubs be better because then you don't have too many girls or a shortage of girls, ect. When I worked at one club they had scheduling stuff but if you were good with management you didn't really need to follow it, so I ended up working one to two days a week usually friday and saturdays and sometimes there would be 60 girls on and others 20 girls, it wa sa mess!

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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    My club opens at noon everyday but Sunday, on Sundays it opens at 3 p.m. it stays open every day until 2 a.m. and from the second it opens until the second it closes there is ALWAYS at least one girl on stage if we are busy it goes up to 2 girls on the main stage and 1 on the side.

    This is able to be done because we have enough girls to do so and the ladies still have the proper time and ability to make bank. The owner does make us schedule every Thursday and we have to stick to that schedule if you call off in most cases he will have you pick up another day or something, if you no call no show you have to pay a fee or get taken off the schedule all together.
    Some rules aren't bad you do need structure in ANY job.

    I worked at a club who had none and some night’s girls wouldn't show until 9 and the club opened at 7 there would be customers sitting around with music playing and no girls. It’s unacceptable to have a stage and for EVEN one set of the night that stage have no girl on it.

    If my club owner didn’t structure his club somewhat it would good sometimes and shitty others and the customers won’t always show up for the good times… you need to appease to everyone even the Monday day business travelers and the bored Sunday people.
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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    It's like I've said before, as long as girls are willing to put up with such bullshit, we'll continue to have to put up with more and more and MORE of it. If more girls would grow some damn balls and refuse to put with this shit, we wouldn't have to put up with it. I am often amazed at the shit many girls think is perfectly fine.

    Molly, I wouldn't work a single night in that club, and I'd even call them and tell them why. They are instituting these rules because girls are putting up with it. I know that only one vote doesn't make much difference, but if you work there and put up with it, you are essentially contributing to the problem. I wouldn't work a club with schedules in an area where schedules aren't even the norm! Let it get started at one place and before you know it the other clubs will be pulling that shit too. ugh


    Agreed with Jenny that if clubs want girls to work the shit shifts, rather than punishing, they'd get alot more out of us if they offered INCENTIVES instead. Like other businesses. duh

    Quote Originally Posted by BaileyBanksNBiddle View Post
    It’s unacceptable to have a stage and for EVEN one set of the night that stage have no girl on it.
    Dood. That statement is so wrong I don't even know where to begin. All I can say right now is I'm sorry, you seem to be a bit brainwashed by asshole managers. Management's rules most often ONLY benefit them and NOT the girls.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette View Post
    Agreed with Jenny that if clubs want girls to work the shit shifts, rather than punishing, they'd get alot more out of us if they offered INCENTIVES instead. Like other businesses. duh
    Word - and heretofore that is how they've done it here, mostly.

    Dood. That statement is so wrong I don't even know where to begin. All I can say right now is I'm sorry, you seem to be a bit brainwashed by asshole managers. Management's rules most often ONLY benefit them and NOT the girls.
    I know! The number of girls who are all "But the club needs girls at 1.00, 2.00, 11.15...." Well, of course they do! That isn't the point! The point is that the club should be fulfilling those needs doing something besides violating our rights and fucking us over. Get girls some other freaking way. "Oh, but they can't afford to pay and incentive, and they can't afford to not ream both customer and dancer on credit card fees, and they can't afford to not take house fees, and they can't afford to not take cuts..." It's a freaking bar. Every other bar in the world can afford to operate with house fees.
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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    What-eva, what-eva, its my body, I'll do what I want!!! (Eric Cartman)

    Seriously, I hate stupid shitty rules like that, which is why I hate going to new clubs sometimes. I have no lack of discipline, but c'mon, I'm grown!

    I find that once you've been somewhere and have seniority (superiority) you can do what the phuck you want! example: the new girl that got royally reemed for taking tips in her tits on the floor last weekend (I do that shit all night long!!!!)

    You're an asset, not a liability or a indentured-servant/stripper.

    Sounds like these bitch-ass managers better recognize!!!!
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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    What-eva, what-eva, its my body, I'll do what I want!!! (Eric Cartman)
    lol! i just spit out my soda. anyway, i say find a diff. club...

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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by kylie3183 View Post
    I don't know, I guess with what Jenny said maybe it's unreasonable for up there. But down here, we have the same kind of stuff alot of places, so I don't think it's that big of a deal.
    I've never worked any club in the US that enforced those sort of rules. Day shift required?? No thanks! Obviously, those shifts suck or they wouldn't have a problem getting girls to work them. I think it's unreasonable anywhere.

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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    Ours aren't quite as bad, we're just "required" to work 2 shifts on the weekends. If you've been there awhile they don't enforce it though. Sometimes I work 1 night on the weekends, sometimes none.

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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I know! The number of girls who are all "But the club needs girls at 1.00, 2.00, 11.15...." Well, of course they do! That isn't the point! The point is that the club should be fulfilling those needs doing something besides violating our rights and fucking us over. Get girls some other freaking way. "Oh, but they can't afford to pay and incentive, and they can't afford to not ream both customer and dancer on credit card fees, and they can't afford to not take house fees, and they can't afford to not take cuts..." It's a freaking bar. Every other bar in the world can afford to operate with house fees.
    No shit. Girls who believe these clubs truly NEED to take all that money from us and that they can't afford to offer incentives to get girls to work the shit shifts are sadly mistaken, and sorry, brainwashed. Think about it ladies. Stripclubs charge more for EVERYTHING than any other bar, plus they take literally hordes of money from the girls, yet they can't afford to offer us incentives to work slower shifts??? Puh-leeeease. The only reason they "can't afford" it is because they're simply too greedy.

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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Word - and heretofore that is how they've done it here, mostly.


    I know! The number of girls who are all "But the club needs girls at 1.00, 2.00, 11.15...." Well, of course they do! That isn't the point! The point is that the club should be fulfilling those needs doing something besides violating our rights and fucking us over. Get girls some other freaking way. "Oh, but they can't afford to pay and incentive, and they can't afford to not ream both customer and dancer on credit card fees, and they can't afford to not take house fees, and they can't afford to not take cuts..." It's a freaking bar. Every other bar in the world can afford to operate with house fees.
    Never did I say the club needs money from me... My club actually takes the least amount from the girls compared to all the other clubs in the area. A club that’s busy makes enough from the bar and admission alone they don’t really need my 20 dollars but more power to them for finding a way to get it.

    Now what I was trying to say is that a strip club looks unprofessional when there are not DANCERS dancing on stage....in my opinion that only fly’s in dives. Customers come to see dancers not for overpriced drinks if there are no DANCERS dancing on the stage they tend to be a little upset. So lets see here dancers that are dancing bring in customers and customers = money for me.

    I also think it a blessing I’m a female and have the option of taking money from men like its candy....If strip clubs have treated you so horribly don’t strip.
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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by BaileyBanksNBiddle View Post
    Never did I say the club needs money from me... My club actually takes the least amount from the girls compared to all the other clubs in the area. A club that’s busy makes enough from the bar and admission alone they don’t really need my 20 dollars but more power to them for finding a way to get it.

    Okay... I disagree. There is a difference between "legitimate business" and "fleecing people". Hint - if it's illegal, it's probably not on the "legitimate business" end of the spectrum. There is a reason we have labour regulations and all that kind of crap. It's not just because MPP's have nothing better to do with their time. If it is unfair for everyone else in the province or state - it is probably unfair to us.
    Now what I was trying to say is that a strip club looks unprofessional when there are not DANCERS dancing on stage....in my opinion that only fly’s in dives. Customers come to see dancers not for overpriced drinks if there are no DANCERS dancing on the stage they tend to be a little upset. So lets see here dancers that are dancing bring in customers and customers = money for me.

    I agree. And the clubs here have this strange way of doing things, that is all legal and stuff... that is, they offer incentive to girls to work those times rather than instituting shady rules that undermine our status as independent contractors. If my club wants me (or anyone) at a given time for a given amount of time, they pay me. You can fill your club with girls through means other than oppressive and unfair rules. Empty club = bad. However forcing me to work at time that it is inconvenient or undesirable, while I'm paying for the privilege also = bad.

    I also think it a blessing I’m a female and have the option of taking money from men like its candy....If strip clubs have treated you so horribly don’t strip.
    Charming; the lovely cry of "you're a stripper so you deserve poor working conditions and labour rules and violations don't apply to you." I have this weird idea that I can be female and a stripper and still be a human being for all legal purposes. I know, I know - it's new fangled, weird and unsettling idea. But just because I'm a stripper and have the potential to make a lot of money doesn't render me subhuman. If you want to walk around undermining yourself - well, saying "power to you" seems inappropriate. But, you know - I don't. Putting up with lousy customers is integral to the job; putting up with lousy management and abusive rule is not.
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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    I struggle with the whole legal thing. Hairdressers, for example, are required to work schedules even though they often rent the space they use within the salon. That's a very similar setup to strippers paying stage fees. However instead of being fined for showing up late or not showing up at all, I'm betting the hairdressers just lose their contract with that salon. The IRS has most definitely ruled in no uncertain terms that treating us like employees while making us pay to work is illegal. I wonder how people like hairdressers (not just us) would be affected if the IRS and state authorities were to crack down and really enforce that.

    There is no doubt that we are abused and treated worse than most other workers, AND that most of the favorite practices club management like to use to enforce their will on us are illegal or on the fringe at best. However, without getting too far into the contractor vs employee debate AGAIN, there's really no practical alternative, other than voting with your feet and only working in clubs where abuses are the least rampant

    So, I mostly choose to work in clubs where the bullshit is lowest while still offering me good money potential, OR occasionally I'll flat out fight back and refuse to put up with certain things. Depending on the situation. I totally agree there is NO reason to allow management to completely abuse us on every turn. They get away with enough without just lying down and taking it up the ass. Sometimes I get REALLY annoyed with the way the younger girls in American clubs are willing to put up with so much shit - it's a large part of the reason we ALL have to put up with what we do. bleh


    I do NOT agree with "more power to them" for figuring out a way to get another $x out of us!!! All is NOT fair in this.

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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    If we're getting into legal stuff, I might also add that I don't know any clubs, around here anyway, that claim the money they take from us. My ex was a bartender at the club I used to work at- he told me all about it. The club made something INSANE like $200 000++...something like that---OFF OF US! Off of the house fees, and the owner didn't claim a penny of it. FUCK THAT. I mean, I know it's what they get away with, and ok, but it's not something that exactly encourages me to play ball with bullshit rules. At least that club let me work whenever I wanted...they'd just ask me to tell them what shifts I wanted a week in advance, and even that was flexible if I needed to change it.

    I just finished a 5 hour Monday day shift, and blahhhh. I hate dayshifts, and I especially hate them when I'm working them against my will. I mean, the club does get lots of business AT NIGHT, but this is ridiculous...I don't think I need all these fuckery when I could just be a waitress, with wages, if I wanted to get cussed out for showing up at 2:04 for my 2pm shift.

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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette View Post
    I struggle with the whole legal thing. Hairdressers, for example, are required to work schedules even though they often rent the space they use within the salon. That's a very similar setup to strippers paying stage fees.
    Hairdressers set a schedule; it's not the same as us. A very simplistic way of looking at it conceptually is "do you own your own labour?"

    Sometimes I get REALLY annoyed with the way the younger girls in American clubs are willing to put up with so much shit - it's a large part of the reason we ALL have to put up with what we do. bleh
    I can take in a "Look I don't like it, but the club has the best money potential, so I'm taking it" kind of way. But I lose my patience with the apologists - like the "this is the best and only possible way to do business" front. Like, "Well OF COURSE they ought to be treating us like employees and just making us pay them" kind of thing.
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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    My club has structure. Yes penalties do apply for being late or not showing but only after the dancer PICKED the days and shifts SHE wanted to work.

    Like no girls on stage I also believe that not showing up after making a commitment or verbal contract is also unprofessional. The no show fees are in a way compensation to the other party who made a commitment to have an open club for you to work in. Would you not be a little upset if you agreed with the owner you would work a Friday night and when you showed the club was closed? In that situation the owner would have not held up his end of the bargain.

    As an independent contractor you don’t have to pay the late fees and etc. but if you want to continue doing business with the club you do. That’s the whole beauty of it you DON'T have to....

    I'm sure there are enough dancers who feel they are abused by this conduct. More power to them to open a club that doesn't have house fees and other "unfair" requests.
    "Here’s to the woman in the high heeled shoes. She smokes the men’s cigarettes and drinks all their booze! When she kisses, she kisses so sweet, she makes things stand that have no feet! She has lost her cherry but that’s no sin cause’ she still has the box the cherry came in!"

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    ^You really sound more like a manager or owner than a dancer. But I've never seen a stripclub manager who could spell for shit, so I guess I have to assume you're a dancer. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
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    Default Re: All these RULES!! Would you stand for it?

    Quote Originally Posted by BaileyBanksNBiddle View Post
    My club has structure. Yes penalties do apply for being late or not showing but only after the dancer PICKED the days and shifts SHE wanted to work.
    But... you just said that the club had to force girls to work certain shifts to ensure that there were always girls on stage.
    Like no girls on stage I also believe that not showing up after making a commitment or verbal contract is also unprofessional.
    Well, me I don't. I tell my club that I may show up; they can usually expect me on certain days. If something else comes up - I WILL do it instead. The club is not my top priority. That is part of what makes it a desirable job for me.

    The no show fees are in a way compensation to the other party who made a commitment to have an open club for you to work in. Would you not be a little upset if you agreed with the owner you would work a Friday night and when you showed the club was closed? In that situation the owner would have not held up his end of the bargain.
    Do you think every club owner gives notice before they shut down? One thing I've learned in this business is that professionalism towards the club is wasted. So no - if they club was closed on a Friday night I would assume that they had a pretty compelling reason for it. I would not be upset, and even if I was, I don't think the club is going to pay me a no-show fee.

    Finally - doing an analysis in terms of a contract is not particularly relevant because you cannot contract out of labour rights. Specifically. If you could then they'd be pretty useless because it would a pre-requisite to every employment relationship.

    As an independent contractor you don’t have to pay the late fees and etc. but if you want to continue doing business with the club you do. That’s the whole beauty of it you DON'T have to....
    So essentially you are saying that it is a beautiful thing that we can put up with abuse or retire? Cute.

    I'm sure there are enough dancers who feel they are abused by this conduct. More power to them to open a club that doesn't have house fees and other "unfair" requests.
    Okay, honey - I just told you that there are clubs here that work on the system I described - they pay a nominal wage to girls to work a full shift and offer more incentive if they are having trouble filling it. The rest come and go as they please. There is a freelance fee but it is nominal and fair. This is a normal, standard business model here, and I don't particularly want to start seeing it undermined. There are clubs in which it is difficult to get "on schedule" because so many girls want to do it. It is obviously a system that works. But if you want to sit there apologizing for your club management and insisting that it is all our fault because we choose to be strippers... well, I guess you have to sit somewhere.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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