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Thread: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

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    Default Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    ... and it certainly has some very interesting 'stories' to tell about Al Queda plans and foiled plots ...



    (snip)"The book, “At the Center of the Storm,” which is being published Monday, reveals that al-Qaida or groups affiliated with it have undertaken several other operations aimed at equaling or even surpassing the carnage of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

    The operations, which either were thwarted by authorities or were canceled for one reason or another, included efforts to assassinate Vice President Al Gore with anti-tank missiles during a trip to Saudi Arabia, release cyanide in the New York subway system and procure weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear weapons, from Pakistani nuclear scientists.

    In one especially chilling assertion, Tenet reveals that several intelligence sources were indicating in fall 2001 that a small nuclear weapon may have been smuggled into the United States.

    Tenet discloses that in 1998, Saudi officials foiled a plot by Abdel Rahim al-Nashiri to smuggle four Sagger anti-tank missiles from Yemen into Saudi Arabia a week or so before Gore was scheduled to visit the kingdom. But their reluctance to let the United States know what was going on created significant tension between the two nations."(snip)

    Tenet’s most frightening chapter is on al-Qaida’s plans to develop weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear weapons. It is titled “They Want to Change the World.”

    Tenet writes that U.S. intelligence agencies “established that Al Qaeda had clear intent to acquire chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear weapons to cause mass casualties in the United States.”

    According to Tenet, intelligence officials learned that Saudi extremist elements were planning to conduct a cyanide gas attack on the New York subway system in fall 2003 using a homemade device. But first, they requested permission from al-Qaida leaders.

    “Chillingly, word came back from Ayman al-Zawahiri in early 2003 to cancel the operation and recall the operatives who were already staged in New York ‘because we have something better in mind.’ ”(snip)

    "It is the story of al-Qaida’s efforts to acquire weapons or weapons technology from Pakistan that anchors the most chilling part of that section.

    The terrorist network made two separate efforts to persuade Pakistani scientists to provide it with nuclear weapons from their stockpile of about 50 nuclear weapons, highly enriched uranium and plutonium, and vast weapons infrastructure.

    In 1998, Osama bin Laden, al-Qaida’s leader, was rebuffed, for unclear reasons. About two years later, he had better luck when al-Qaida reached out to a charity for Afghan refugees run by Pakistani nuclear scientists. Although some of the details of this effort have been previously reported, the extent of the effort went much further than what was publicly known."(snip)

    In 2000, Tenet writes, the charity’s founder, Sultan Bashir-ud-Din Mahmood, and others at Pakistan’s nuclear weapons agency agreed to help Mahmood in his effort to share weapons of mass destruction with the Taliban leaders of Afghanistan.

    In fact, Tenet said, U.S. intelligence learned that bin Laden and Mullah Mohammed Omar, the Taliban’s leader, had met with Mahmood and an aide in August 2001 in Afghanistan.

    Tenet describes the initial Pakistani investigation as “ill-fated” and writes that the Pakistanis treated the charity officials with deference in their interrogations."(snip)

    So he went to Pakistan and met with Musharraf, warning about the outrage that would explode if it emerged that Pakistan was allowing nuclear scientists to help bin Laden acquire nuclear weapons.

    Musharraf pooh-poohed the concerns, arguing that bin Laden and his associates were “men living in caves” who could not possibly take possession of such weapons, Tenet writes. Under interrogation, however, Mahmood subsequently confirmed the details of the August 2001 meeting with bin Laden.

    At the same time, in the fall of 2001, Tenet writes, U.S. intelligence began picking up rumors from several reliable sources that a small nuclear device had been smuggled into the United States, for probable use in New York City. The Energy Department sent detection equipment to New York, he adds.

    Tenet concludes that a nuclear detonation in a U.S. city is al-Qaida’s ultimate goal.

    “I’m concerned this is where UBL and his operatives want to go,” he writes. “If they can arrange to set off a mushroom cloud, they make history. ... My deepest fear is that this exactly what they intend.”

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    meh. Republicans=Democrats. same shit different labeling
    don't hate the player hate the game......

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    Quote Originally Posted by missjzone View Post
    meh. Republicans=Democrats. same shit different labeling
    ^^^^^All too true!

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    Vote Libertarian.

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    For the record, Tenet was also GWB's CIA Director, why no mention of that in the thread title?

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    ^^^ because Tenet wasn't selected by GWB ? because Tenet had firsthand knowledge of CIA terrorist related info four years prior to 9/11 since being appointed by Bill Clinton in 1997 ? Because as a 'democrat apparatchik' his comments about weapons of mass destruction are a bit more difficult for mainstream media to deny ?

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    ... and here's some 'corroboration' from the latest issue of Futurist magazine ...



    (snip)"An expert who helped prepare a 1994 report that uncannily predicted the threat terrorists would pose – including key aspects of the 9/11 attacks – now warns of even more ominous attacks.

    "Muslim extremists will acquire nuclear weapons within the next 10 years, if they do not possess them already," writes Forecasting International founder and president Marvin Cetron in the new issue of The Futurist magazine.

    Cetron played a key role in the 1994 report titled "Terror 2000: the Future Face of Terrorism."

    The report was part of a Pentagon sponsored conference that took input from several experts, including Paul Bremer, formerly ambassador-at-large for counterterrorism and administrator of Iraq; Brian Jenkins, now senior vice president at the RAND Corp.; and others.

    At the time, the common wisdom was that terrorism was becoming obsolete, for no state would be likely to sponsor future terrorist acts for fear of crippling reprisals.

    The authors of the "Terror 2000" report saw it differently, Terrorism, they predicted, would be sponsored not by states but by Muslim extremists motivated by hatred of the West.

    Among the particulars, the compilers of the report foresaw a new, more successful attack on the World Trade Center towers, the crash of an airplane into the Pentagon, and the threat of simultaneous assaults on widely separated targets.

    The accuracy of that report lends considerable credence to Cetron and his organization, and their new predictions.

    "Rather than obtaining nuclear weapons from a sympathetic government, al-Qaida or its spin-offs will likely become the government in any of perhaps a dozen countries," Cetron writes.

    "Wherever secular government is weak, it might easily be replaced by a much stronger and more virulently anti-American theocracy with leaders drawn straight from the terrorist movement."

    He cites Syria, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sudan, Iraq and the predominantly Muslim nations of the former Soviet Union.

    "However," Cetron notes, "our own choice for ‘most likely to undergo a religious revolution' is Saudi Arabia, where the royal family has supported the extremist Wahhabi sect for some 200 years."

    Interestingly, Cetron's report was published before Saudi officials arrested last week 172 militants it claimed were planning massive and coordinated terror attacks at installations, including numerous refineries, across the kingdom. "(snip)

    "Recently, Forecasting International surveyed a variety of military specialists, futurists and others to highlight the most probable and devastating threats facing the U.S. and the West in the future. Among the most worrisome:

    # Coordinated suicide bombings in Washington, D.C.

    # Attacks on commuter trains in New York or other major cities.

    # Destruction of the train and vehicle tunnels in and out of New York City.

    # Detonation of a suitcase nuclear device.

    # An attack at the next U.S. presidential inauguration.

    # Shooting down Air Force One.

    # A repeat of the 9/11 scenario, with airliners crashing into major buildings.

    The transformation of terrorist groups into legitimate political factions or even governments – which Forecasting International sees likely within the next five years – will be rooted in Muslims' widespread hostility toward the West.

    To make his case, Cetron cites figures that Forecasting International helped compile, indicating that one-third of Muslims believe the 9/11 attacks were justified and two-thirds believe the attacks were carried out by the intelligence agencies of the U.S., Britain or Israel to discredit Muslims.

    In short, two-thirds of the world's 1.7 billion Muslims – in every Muslim country and at every socioeconomic level – "take it as a matter of faith that the U.S. ‘war on terror' is no more than a fraud carried out for the purpose of returning them to colonial rule," according to Cetron, who has served as a consultant for Fortune 500 companies, foreign governments and branches of the U.S. government.

    And the terrorist ranks are growing in the Muslim world, in both Muslim nations and among Europe's burgeoning Muslim population, encouraged to an extent by the American invasion of Iraq.

    Up to 30,000 foreign fighters are thought to have entered Iraq, where they are "now gaining contacts and experience that will serve them well in future campaigns against Western nations," Cetron predicts.

    "In this, Iraq is now serving the function that Afghanistan provided in the 1980s."

    Countering these terrorist threats will be difficult, Cetron concedes. For one thing, nuclear weapons are becoming increasingly portable and therefore hard to stop at the border.

    Furthermore, a preemptive strike against terrorists and their sympathizers "could involve so many deaths, and such a horrific level of guilt, that the United States would be unlikely to survive intact," Cetron concludes.

    He urges that nuclear materials abandoned around the world must be secured, and Saudi Arabia must be discouraged from supporting madrassas that spew a virulent anti-West message.

    Another voice sounding the alarm about the looming threat from Muslim extremists is investigative reporter Paul Williams, author of the new book "The Day of Islam: The Annihilation of America and the Western World."

    Williams, a former consultant for the FBI, provides readers with newly uncovered information on terrorist activities in Pakistan, Iran, Iran, other Muslim countries – and our neighbor Canada – which points to a coming nuclear attack on American soil. [Editor's Note: For more info on "Day of Islam" -- Click Here]

    What emerges is a harrowing picture of international terrorist activities, all aimed at the destruction of the United States and the collapse of the Western world."

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    ^^^GWB and Condi knew all about these threats too and didn't do shit about it. Why are you giving them a free pass?

    Much better to take his words and twist them to get us into a war in Iraq I guess.

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    ^^^GWB and Condi knew all about these threats too and didn't do shit about it. Why are you giving them a free pass?
    I'm not ! However, I am keeping reality in perspective i.e. the reason that GWB kept on George Tenet as CIA director was because he had exactly 2 weeks to make decisions about presidential appointees after the 2000 election was finally decided in his favor (instead of the usual 2 months). I'm also keeping in perspective that in early 2001 GWB was highly dependent on 'threat assessments' passed on by Tenet and other members of the Clinton administration.

    But this strays from the point that Tenet is now saying in his new book that there were all sorts of reasons to conclude that WMD's falling into the hands of islamic extremists was a major consideration both in the 90's and in the early 00's.

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    I'm not ! However, I am keeping reality in perspective i.e. the reason that GWB kept on George Tenet as CIA director was because he had exactly 2 weeks to make decisions about presidential appointees after the 2000 election was finally decided in his favor (instead of the usual 2 months).
    I seem to remember hearing in an interview that of the limited advice elder Bush gave was not to fire tenet. Because of his personal history as CIA director, he didn't want the job to be considered a political appointment like a Cabinet level job.

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    A book called "On the Brink" by Tyler Drumheller covers the same grounds but from a different point of view. Drumheller was Europes main intelligence and was a main component in the factors of 9/11.

    Also, Doich (whom came before Tenet) was crap and did a lot of crap to the CIA's hiring policies.

    I hate talking politics. But. Iraq is next to Syria and Palestine whose leaders, are bad, but who will take them over are WORSE. I hate war, I hate everything that comes with it, but if they are trying to protect us by taking out a pawn... is that bad or good when it comes to our safety?

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalligirl
    Iraq is next to Syria and Palestine whose leaders, are bad, but who will take them over are WORSE.
    I'm not sure what you mean. There is no such country as "Palestine," hasn't been for almost 60 years.

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    Palestine has a government. Its not really a state yet. The gov't is divided by two fractions that hate each other. Syra is much bigger, a real gov't, chemical weapons coming out of its nose. It has a weak leader, but when hes gone, shits gonna hit the fan.

    Theres no easy solutions to any problems. There's no real difficult solutions either. Super complex.

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    ^^^ But don't get me wrong. Its NOT just about those two countries. There are so many factors in this whole clusterfuck.

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    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    How can a nonexistent fictional place have a "government"? If you're referring to the ridiculous attempt at legitimacy that Hamas is trying for by playing at politics, that's not a government. It's a terrorist entity just like al-Qaeda, dressed up in political drag.

    I agree that Syria is a threat, but as far as Iraq is concerned, its Shiite majority makes it more likely to be taken over by Iran (which in fact is happening right now).

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    Hamas was freely elected. They are terroist scum. Fatah are also terrorist scum. They're just, these days, not as bloody as Hamas. But I was by NO MEANS by describing their as gov't as a good thing.

    I'm ending my part of this conversation. Not because I think you are wrong, its just because there is no gain. Its all soooo complex and horrifyling important and I can spend a lot of time researching and just get super depressed.

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah View Post
    How can a nonexistent fictional place have a "government"? If you're referring to the ridiculous attempt at legitimacy that Hamas is trying for by playing at politics, that's not a government. It's a terrorist entity just like al-Qaeda, dressed up in political drag.

    I agree that Syria is a threat, but as far as Iraq is concerned, its Shiite majority makes it more likely to be taken over by Iran (which in fact is happening right now).
    please explain to me how it's a fictional place? If anything it has more validity than Israel.
    don't hate the player hate the game......

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    ^^^ from a theoretical standpoint, Palestine and Andalusia have a lot in common. They were both formerly independent 'countries' under muslim control that were essentially 'lost' due to unsuccessful military confrontation with non-muslims. From a realistic standpoint, while the US and Israeli gov'ts don't recognize the existance of an independent country called Palestine, which was established as an independent 'country' via U.N. partitioning of Palestinian territory after WW1, in essence the Europeans / Russians / Chinese and other arab countries do still consider Palestine to be a legitimate (but occupied) country with a legitimate gov't !

    As Kalli points out, the Palestine issue has been a source of conflict at least since the Crusades established the kingdom of Jerusalem within 'former' Palestinian territory - with the post WW2 establishment of the country of Israel within 'former' Palestinian territory bearing eerie similarities in the minds of many muslims. In the mind of some moslems, this actually goes all the way back to 'conquest' of Palestine by Imperial Rome and the Egyptian Ptolemy's some 2200 years ago. But in terms of recent history re Israel, Palestinian's own actions and choices definitely contributed to their 'fate' ...



    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-04-2007 at 05:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    ^^^^ i'm not sure of the uh, independence of that particular source, and i bring it up because your sources are always excellent.

    That particular source presents a certain point of view which is not necessarily particualarily credible-i can't find the source of the site, but it appears to be Israeli as it frames the debate soley in terms of israeli reference, which,understanbly focuses the whole palestinian question in certain way. There are some serious historical misrepresentations and even some things which appear to be made up in the first few paragraphs alone.

    Palestinian self-determination is legitimate. i don't believe anyone can honestly argue for a right to the Jewish claim to Israel (and I don't include the occupied territories) without accepting Palestinian claims to a state. A economically stable and prosperous Palestine is integral to the security of Israel. Israel would be far better off in terms of its own national security in developing a safe, stable and economically intertwined Palestine. Hamas has been elected by the people, they are a legitimate government and certainly not the first to have sprung out of terrorist campaigns. Sinn Fein is a textbook case. The northern ireland conflict was once believed irresolvable but now seems certain to eventaully disipate completely; the IRA have demilitarised. Increasingly, the trend is for formerly radicalised movements to moderate in exchange for a legitimate political role-it's amazing how quickly the rhetoric tones down when those who have been bought to power realise they won't stay there if it continues. The PLO is case in point.

    AND, before anyone launches at me with the Iran factor i'm going to point out that the Arab world, conventionally hate Iran (Iran, of course, not being arab). Iran was a virtual pariah in the Arab world which has manged to use previously Israel, and now Anti-Americanism as a unifyer with its arab neighbours. I would suggest most of the Arab states would probably still retain a fairly frosty relationship with Iran aside from deploring intervention in the middle east (and i do not single out america, i mean the whole power-of-the-day, britian/france/usa/ussr fiasco) .

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    i'm not sure of the uh, independence of that particular source, and i bring it up because your sources are always excellent.
    well in this particular case, I chose this source solely because it summarized the 'evolution' of Palestinian leadership rather concisely - and as you point out, without any semblance of sugar coating. The relevant point probably is that since WW2 the German people, the Italian people, the Japanese people etc. have all voted for a fundamental change in their gov't and in their national priorities. The Palestinian people have not !

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^ from a theoretical standpoint, Palestine and Andalusia have a lot in common. They were both formerly independent 'countries' under muslim control that were essentially 'lost' due to unsuccessful military confrontation with non-muslims. From a realistic standpoint, while the US and Israeli gov'ts don't recognize the existance of an independent country called Palestine, which was established as an independent 'country' via U.N. partitioning of Palestinian territory after WW1, in essence the Europeans / Russians / Chinese and other arab countries do still consider Palestine to be a legitimate (but occupied) country with a legitimate gov't !

    As Kalli points out, the Palestine issue has been a source of conflict at least since the Crusades established the kingdom of Jerusalem within 'former' Palestinian territory - with the post WW2 establishment of the country of Israel within 'former' Palestinian territory bearing eerie similarities in the minds of many muslims. In the mind of some moslems, this actually goes all the way back to 'conquest' of Palestine by Imperial Rome and the Egyptian Ptolemy's some 2200 years ago. But in terms of recent history re Israel, Palestinian's own actions and choices definitely contributed to their 'fate' ...

    http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_man...rand_mufti.php

    ~
    Melonie,

    Thanks for the link. appreciate it. I am however intimately aware of Palestine and it's history and I posted more cause I took issue with a previous poster stating Palestine is a fictional place. Palestine is a land, a nation and a people regardless of what our very biased media tells us.
    don't hate the player hate the game......

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    The relevant point probably is that since WW2 the German people, the Italian people, the Japanese people etc. have all voted for a fundamental change in their gov't and in their national priorities. The Palestinian people have not !

    That's not what i was questioning

    My point was that a Israeli viewpoint on palestinian political evolution is hardly the most credible of sources. In the same way a palestinian or even arab soure on israeli leadership would certainly not be balanced or in my view credible because there will undoubtedly be biased.

    I guess i was just saying that in so heated an area i believe that the most neutral sources are probably better, becuase there were some serious misresentations and creative editing in the "palestine facts" site(which, i thought was a incredibly manipulative title because it suggested neutrality when it has clearly come if not directly from a Israeli source, then certainly a aligned one-not scolding you Melonie-just having a rant about whoever published the site using that title-raises serious ethical questions)

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    ^^^ well this is actually a 'problem' which has arisen on earlier occasions regarding different subjects. Just because a particular 'source' is less than 100% objective does not automatically discredit the factuality of all of the content they report.

    There are many different online sources which corroborate the main facts about past Nazi associations by Palestininan 'officials'. The actions of Grand Mufti Husseini have been officially recorded and corroborated by many sources from the Nuremburg trial transcripts to photographic evidence. It is also a matter of historical record that the Palestinian leader we knew as Yasir Arafat was in fact a nephew of Grand Mufti Husseini.





    The relevant point probably is that since WW2 the German people, the Italian people, the Japanese people etc. have all voted for a fundamental change in their gov't and in their national priorities. The Palestinian people have not !

    That's not what i was questioning
    Well, in my own mind at least, the 'intent' of any peoples who actively support violent leaders pursuing policies of confrontation and unilateral attacks upon their 'enemies' is certainly questionable. Beginning with the Italian people in 1943, and following through with Germany and Japan in 1945-48, the 'citizens' of these countries refused to support new leaders who were inclined to pursue national policies of violence and military agression. The Palestinian people still support leaders pursuing national policies of violence and military agression to this day ! Arguably, since the death of the Grand Mufti's nephew Yasir Arafat which created a Palestinian power vacuum, the more radical the new Palestinian leadership faction the more support they seem to garner from the Palestinian people !


    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-25-2007 at 05:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    Quote Originally Posted by missjzone View Post
    I am however intimately aware of Palestine and it's history and I posted more cause I took issue with a previous poster stating Palestine is a fictional place. Palestine is a land, a nation and a people regardless of what our very biased media tells us.
    THANKYOU!!!!!

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    Default Re: Clinton's CIA Director's new book just released ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    ^^^

    Well, in my own mind at least, the 'intent' of any peoples who actively support violent leaders pursuing policies of confrontation and unilateral attacks upon their 'enemies' is certainly questionable.


    ~
    Interventionism anyone?

    Unilateral preemption?

    Pointing out the blindingly obvious use of all of the above by the 'world police', i can list a dozen countries off the top of my head who support, or have supported violent military attacks and been overwhelmingly supported by its populous;
    Russia against its Chechnyan minority (not to mention various other minorites)
    England (or Great /Britian as you would); against the Northern Irish republicans
    Indonesia; against archeh (amoung other) seperatists
    Spain; against the ethnic Basque
    Croatia and altnernatively Serbia against the people of Vojvodina and Krajini
    India and Pakistan: Discuss.
    China: against a whorde of minorites
    Turkey: against the ethnic Kurds
    Israel: against Palestine (and yes, Palestine Against Israel) and Lebanon (bombing Beiruit to dust was completely unessary for rooting out a guerilla force based ON THE SOURTHERN BOARDER)

    let me make clear, I HATE INTERVENTION. I think it is a ridiculous platform that 9 times out of 10 exacerbates a problem and carries it on to the next generation where the cycle just repeats. But Palestine is certainly not alone in supporting warmongering military leaders. Surely, the 'culture of fear' that sprung up after 9/11 where any thing and evrything was (and still is) justified in combatting "Terror" and leadership was given seemingly unrestricted power to do whatever it pleased without justification, rhym or reason can be extended to the Palestinian (and Israeli for that matter) context without too much stretch of the imagiation?

    Sorry.
    No Genuinely. I accept your point and don't necessarily disagree, i just completely deny that you can in any way shape or form sinlge out palestine in that respect. Especially considering what we in "the west" have accpeted from out leaders in the not too distant past.

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