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Thread: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

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    Member Svetlana's Avatar
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    Default Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    By nature, I am very comfortable with my sexuality and I'm a natural-born performer. I've been dancing since the age of 6, and figure skated in my teens, and have no problem being the center of attention.

    I'm also a feminist- and believe that the western society has objectified women in a demeaning way through the way we're depicted in the media.

    However, I am very liberal, and I look at typical "demeaning" things like the word "cunt" and using it as empowerment, a la the vagina monologues.

    So I'm very conflicted. I want to dance, because I need the money and I think it would be fun and an outlet- both creative and sexual.. but I'm conflicted over whether it's contributing to the objectification of women in western society, or whether it's empowering and reclaiming women's bodies.

    I know that ultimately it's the mindset and personal limits you set for yourself with dancing that will make it what it is. Does anyone else feel like this?

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    Featured Member Sunshine73's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    I have never once felt "objectified", simply because I conduct myself in this business with self-respect and love. If I were to surrender my boundaries and values in the name of the dollar, then I'd feel I've become objectified.

    Dancing has been a very empowering experience for me. I am independent, I take care of myself and my child, and it has done wonderful things for me and my life. Way too many things to list.

    You can be a dancer and not lose your soul. Stay true to yourself and your values and it can be a positive thing.
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    God/dess Pretty_Penny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    you will have to deal with -many- sexist men to make money. you will have to bite your tongue -a lot- in these cases to make money. you will come across MANY men who are bitter towards women in general or view women as objects of pleasure at best or even worse, a "hassle" or something to be "dealt with". the average strip club customer isn't concerned with your empowerment.

    for the record, i feel the same way you do. i just don't believe that stripping in general has "empowered" me in the feminist sense at all. i believe, that while it may occasionaly feel empowering to be nude or to be embracing your sexuality, or to be financialy independent (and all of those things are) the overall feel of a strip club is one of objectification and male superiority.

    i'm not saying all men who go to strip clubs act that way, but i would say the majority do, at least on some level. i guess the point i'm making is, if you want to dance, go for it. just don't expect it to be this empowering liberating thing without all the emotional backlash that comes along with dancing naked for men. you sound like someone (like myself) who likes to perform. someone who likes to dance sensualy, to tease, who enjoys the art of stripteasing. sadly, this is not what strip clubs are about anymore. sure, there are customers who enjoy real strip teasing and who appreciate the art and build up. hell, some even just want stimulating conversation, but these aren't the typical strip club customer. most customers these days want as much physical action as they can get for as little money as possible. you will spend a lot of time weeding through these customers to find the decent ones.

    i'm not trying to talk you out of it, just saying to be prepared. i don't believe in sugar coating anything.

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    God/dess Pretty_Penny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    i also agree with what sunshine said...

    i personaly never feel like an object myself either, because i don't think of myself that way. i'm speaking more of how you will be viewed by others.

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    God/dess jaizaine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    I think we are making money out of men's objectifying of us! If that makes sense. We are using it to our full advantage. I cant believe the amount of money men will throw at us just to see some t&a. I find it rather amusing.

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    God/dess Pretty_Penny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    ^ oh don't get me wrong, i <3 taking their sexist money.

    btw svet.. did you ever try dollhouse?

  7. #7
    aussiepunkshocker
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    Im a feminist I dance and IMO stripping is a great job for a feminist to have! Its very empowering I think (-:
    I shall add that in Australia our work conditions are mostly good to work in. All clubs are low or non contact and the laws and club rules are enforced as a general rule of thumb.

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    God/dess Pretty_Penny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    ^ from what i've heard australia is a totaly different ball game. i think i'd enjoy working there -much- more than here.

    this girl lives in tampa, fl though. heh

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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    I have far more detailed ideas on this than I'm going to type in here, but the gist of my opinion is as follows:

    There is nothing less liberated that someone else telling you what you can and cannot do, what parts of yourself you can and cannot sell, and what behaviors are and are not appropriate for someone who respects herself as a person. A person or a philosophical standpoint that tells you that you are not allowed to sell the image of your naked dancing body because it "objectifies" you is itself treating you as an object and not a person.

    Jobs are not places where you are loved and cherished for every aspect of your complex being. If you're a stripper, the only part of you that your job cares about is your hot body. If you're a JAVA programmer, the only part of you that your job cares about is your ability to write code. If you're a secretary, the only part of you that your job cares about is your ability to file and take dictation. If you're a tailor, the only part of you that your job cares about is your ability to make a nice pair of pants. (Yes, these are intended as overly-simplified statements; it is of course true that customer service, ability to get along with people, etc. is important to being able to perform perhaps all of these jobs.) People don't pay you to be yourself and present your amazing personhood in all of its faceted individuality; people pay you for a product or a service that they want.

    If someone says it's OK to sell the labor of your analytical mind to be a scientist, or the labor of your emotions and expression to be a poet, or the labor of your problem-solving skills to be an engineer; but it's not OK to sell the labor of your body to be a sex symbol, who is it that is making "you" into nothing but your body and sexuality? I see no logical way to say that it is the person who says it's OK to sell any part of yourself or any service that you wish to sell that makes "you" into nothing but your sexuality. It's the person who says that your sexual image is the ONLY thing that it's not OK to sell that makes "you" into nothing but your sexuality.

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    God/dess Dottie Rebel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    ^^^

    Yep. Right there!

    I stripped when I was 17, 18, and 19. I quit while obtaining my gender studies degree because I could no longer continue to perpetuate the objectification of women. I wasted 6 great stripping years with that attitude.

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    God/dess PaigeDWinter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    If you choose to be comfortable with your body and sexuality, and you choose to be a stripper.... and you like it... and it goes well... where is the objectification? If some guy, who really is nothing more than a wallet holder, wants to look at you in the club, and only see a vagina... who cares? If you do not let yourself feel objectified, you aren't... at least IMHO.
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    I do feel objectified, but I don't find it demeaning.

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    Featured Member Kalligirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty_Penny View Post
    ^ from what i've heard australia is a totaly different ball game. i think i'd enjoy working there -much- more than here.

    this girl lives in tampa, fl though. heh
    Sad but true. Maybe she can start in Sarasota? Or atleast not Mons or Odysessy..

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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    I think it's more demeaning to the people that are paying me and think there is a "connection" or truly think I like them.

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    God/dess jaizaine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    I actually prefer being objectified at work than those custies that try to get all personal and ask personal q's.

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    Member Svetlana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    wow... love the responses- a lot of them. I think I understand a little better your perspective.

    I'm actually living in Sarasota now, so I will be starting here, not Tampa. Tampa clubs scare me. I backed away from 2 amateur nights/auditions there because of the... erm. intensity. (mons)

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    God/dess Pretty_Penny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    ^ well mons is the most intimidating place in tampa. i say try cheetah.

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    Featured Member Kalligirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    ^^^ hehe yeah thats why I said not mons or odysessy.

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    Featured Member Windy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    well i think, to the men - we are objects. and i dont care...because that is what THEY Think, and i know who i am - and i dont define myself on someone elses opinon of me.

    when im working, i objectify the men. i see them as $. thats all. i mean if they are friendly, then thats great. if not, big deal. so they can "objectify" me in their minds all they want - as long as im geting what i want....$.

    besides, i dont think of my body as ALL of me or my TRUE SELF - to me, its just my body. whats REALLY me, is INSIDE me - my soul, my heart - thats me. not my body...so i dont feel as if im "degrading" it or exploiting it or anything.

    i also agree with jaizaine - its so annoying when i start to spread my legs or somethin, n some guy will just OUTTA NOWHERE say "so...know any good jokes?"(happened to me today argh!)
    or theyll ask me where im from, then ill say what state, then theyll ask me WHAT CITY - then proceed to claim they have some aunt or cousin living in some city right NEXT to where im from and take forever trying to name it. dear lord!

    i think, mite as well use my body to my advantage now, while i still can haha. n in the meantime, go 2 college n what not because i dont plan to do this forever n when my boobs start hangin' haha. (but ill prolly still get em relifted anyways haha)
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    Quote Originally Posted by jaizaine View Post
    I actually prefer being objectified at work than those custies that try to get all personal and ask personal q's.
    So true! I'm the same way. I'd rather not actually have to "get to know" the guy.

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    God/dess Dottie Rebel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    Quote Originally Posted by kylie3183 View Post
    So true! I'm the same way. I'd rather not actually have to "get to know" the guy.
    Hell yeah! That's what the place is for--we objectify eachother and boil social exchange theory down to it's most fundamental. It's a safe environment in which to do that! As long as men use the SC as an outlet for such thoughts and feeling and treat women as whole people outside of the club, I don't see anything wrong with it. It's just a fantasy, after all.

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    Veteran Member dollyrocker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    Quote Originally Posted by asinglehungrygrasshopper View Post
    I have far more detailed ideas on this than I'm going to type in here, but the gist of my opinion is as follows:

    There is nothing less liberated that someone else telling you what you can and cannot do, what parts of yourself you can and cannot sell, and what behaviors are and are not appropriate for someone who respects herself as a person. A person or a philosophical standpoint that tells you that you are not allowed to sell the image of your naked dancing body because it "objectifies" you is itself treating you as an object and not a person.

    Jobs are not places where you are loved and cherished for every aspect of your complex being. If you're a stripper, the only part of you that your job cares about is your hot body. If you're a JAVA programmer, the only part of you that your job cares about is your ability to write code. If you're a secretary, the only part of you that your job cares about is your ability to file and take dictation. If you're a tailor, the only part of you that your job cares about is your ability to make a nice pair of pants. (Yes, these are intended as overly-simplified statements; it is of course true that customer service, ability to get along with people, etc. is important to being able to perform perhaps all of these jobs.) People don't pay you to be yourself and present your amazing personhood in all of its faceted individuality; people pay you for a product or a service that they want.

    If someone says it's OK to sell the labor of your analytical mind to be a scientist, or the labor of your emotions and expression to be a poet, or the labor of your problem-solving skills to be an engineer; but it's not OK to sell the labor of your body to be a sex symbol, who is it that is making "you" into nothing but your body and sexuality? I see no logical way to say that it is the person who says it's OK to sell any part of yourself or any service that you wish to sell that makes "you" into nothing but your sexuality. It's the person who says that your sexual image is the ONLY thing that it's not OK to sell that makes "you" into nothing but your sexuality.
    Very very well said!

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    Veteran Member redvelvetrose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie Rebel View Post
    Hell yeah! That's what the place is for--we objectify eachother and boil social exchange theory down to it's most fundamental. It's a safe environment in which to do that! As long as men use the SC as an outlet for such thoughts and feeling and treat women as whole people outside of the club, I don't see anything wrong with it. It's just a fantasy, after all.
    Exactly. Clubs are for fantasy. As long as guys don't go into clubs thinking that they can objectify ALL women the way they objectify dancers, I'm fine with it. And here I use "objectify" as a neutral word -- it's just part of the fantasy. Besides, we also objectify the customers as walking wallets, too. I'm cool with it as long as everybody involved realizes that it's just a fantasy they are paying for.

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    Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    When I first started dancing I felt your way, but in time now it all just makes sense to me that this is a BUSINESS. I consider myself a "Business Woman", and if some asshole is being a complete jerk I know how to handle it now whereas when I was new I would just put up with it. Now I'm doing what it is I WANT to do or I wouldn't have stuck around for so long. Plus, BEING FOCUSED, and HAVING GOALS helps...lots of dancers get lost in the lifestyle and lose sight of them and why they started dancing in the first place.



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    Veteran Member Cyndi08's Avatar
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    Default Re: Anyone else feel like this? (feminism)

    I don't see stripping as degrading whatsoever. If anything men degrade themselves through their animalistic needs.

    Stripping is not about a woman's weakness, it's about a man's.

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