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Thread: A comment on not tipping or buying

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    Veteran Member cpeters1's Avatar
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    Default A comment on not tipping or buying

    So it has been forever since I have enjoyed this site. I really do enjoy this site, as I am fascinated by this whole industry. Some guys like baseball, or poker, or golf, but I like naked women, plain and simple.

    However, I also have a certain type of woman that I prefer. What that is is not important, as we all know different guys like all different types. But in reading some of the threads here recently, the guys are getting slammed pretty hard if they don't tip or get PD's whenever solicited. Yes, I do know that you girls pay to work at the club, and yes I do realize that you make all your money via tips and dances, but at the same time you have to respect the fact that not every guy is going to like you. No matter how good a dancer or how good a seller you are, he might just not like you.

    In fact, he might just not like any of the girls that night. Now, maybe in the clubs that you girls work at, the average girl is fantastic looking, a great dancer, and a great seller, but at my local clubs, it is a crap shoot. You might go in on a night and have 30 girls and half of them are exactly your ideal dancer. You might drop a few hundred in an hour an be all tapped out, but your friends are still there so you hang out, at the risk of being labelled a PL by all the other girls for not buying dances.

    Go back to the same club the next week, and there are 10 dancers of which none are even remotely interesting to you. But isn't that the nature of the game when all the employees are self contractors. They follow the work around, and maybe some club 30 miles away is having a special night. But how did you know when you went in. Again, your buddies are having the time of their lives, so you stick around, again labelled as a PL non-paying custie.

    On the other hand, I have been at the local club dozens of times, money in my pocket ready to spend. I have tipped the girls I like on stage every time they come out. I have made eye contact with them as they walk by, and after a few hours, left with every dime in my wallet because they could not take the time away from their boyfriends or regulars to even say "thanks for the tip wanna dance."

    On the other other hand, I have sat there and had girls come to my table, ask for dance, I politely immediately say no, not wanting to waste anyones time, and I get attitude back. I did not ask for them to come over, and I understand they are trying to make a buck, but I won't spend my money on girls I am not interested in, why is that somehow my fault. Like the other analogy, I am not going to buy a car I don't like, or for a price I won't pay, just because the salesman spent his time trying to sell it to me.

    Now, don't get me wrong here. If you are going into the club, asking girls to join you at your table, chatting them up like they are your best friend, then being surprised when the "wanna dance" comes, and saying no, then you are a schmuck who needs to stay home.

    So think there are many many sides to this coin. Some guys may come in and just not like what is on the menu, it's an off night. Some girls may go to work after a really bad day, and the guys can sense that trust me, and get all "no thanks" that night. It's a crap shoot, or at least that's the way I see it.

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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    Seems reasonable. Party on...

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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    i think that most everyone (dancers wise) would agree that if you straight up tell a girl she isn't your type, and you dont want to waste her time, she will be VERY appreciative, and i wouldn't slam you for not tipping or buying dances from her. if she's not your type, she's not your type.

    OTOH if you waste a girl's time all night and never communicate that she's not your type to her, you are being truly unfair to her. and that i will never hesitate to slam someone for.

    Love it!

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    I think too many guys on this site, as usual, take too much of our ranting too personally.

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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    Quote Originally Posted by cpeters1 View Post

    Now, don't get me wrong here. If you are going into the club, asking girls to join you at your table, chatting them up like they are your best friend, then being surprised when the "wanna dance" comes, and saying no, then you are a schmuck who needs to stay home.
    HIt the nail right on the head there. I dont have a problem with customers who do this. I have a problem with customers who deliberately waste our time or sit at the stage with no intention of tipping.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    Quote Originally Posted by cpeters1 View Post
    But in reading some of the threads here recently, the guys are getting slammed pretty hard if they don't tip or get PD's whenever solicited.
    I don't think this is accurate. I don't think guys "get slammed" for not buying "whenever solicited". I think guys are getting slammed for NEVER buying and having intention of NEVER buying.

    We may complain when guys don't buy from us - that is different. That is about our convenience, not a moral imperative to buy. We do understand the difference.

    In fact, he might just not like any of the girls that night.
    I don't buy this. Like, not even one? And in that case - what is he doing there? Why didn't he walk in and go "Ugh" and walk out again? So really, he likes the girls well enough to stay and enjoy the free show and the free chat.

    Again, your buddies are having the time of their lives, so you stick around, again labelled as a PL non-paying custie.
    Ah yes. "I'm only here because my friends are here." You're right. You would be so labeled.
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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    To the OP,

    I doubt anyone could get too upset over this attitude. The other poster got 'slammed' because he wrote that he is not into getting PDs at all, not because he is choosey or has a particular fetish/type that he is looking for.

    They were also commenting on wasting their time. Like you, if I'm not interested I just say no thanks upfront.

    Also this is a dancer support site, not a customer site, so I wouldn't confuse the venting that goes on here with what is expected of customers in the club. But on the flip side, not every dancer in the world is on this site, and some do seem to take it very personally when a customer says no thanks. People are people, and human nature being what it is, it's understandable that it doesn't feel good to be rejected, even professionally. Still there is not much you can do about that other then deliver the message with a touch of care for another human being, and then let it go. Ultimately you are there for you, for your entertainment, to spend your entertainment money on who you want. If no dancer matches what you are looking for, you're not obligated to spend the money.

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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    just don't sit at the rail, if you're not going to tip every single girl.

    i don't mind if a custy is there for ONE girl, even if that ONE girl is not me. but for a guy to sit there and waste my time... eff him.

    as long as you contribute wonderfully to one of my friends, i don't mind that you're not spending $$ on me. chances are, she will talk you into a double dance with me anyway

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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    Quote Originally Posted by cpeters1 View Post
    On the other hand, I have been at the local club dozens of times, money in my pocket ready to spend. I have tipped the girls I like on stage every time they come out. I have made eye contact with them as they walk by, and after a few hours, left with every dime in my wallet because they could not take the time away from their boyfriends or regulars to even say "thanks for the tip wanna dance."
    This is a disturbing trend that I noticed five years ago, and as "old guard" dancers retire and are replaced with clueless newbies its only getting worse. Did you explicitly ask a desired dancer that you wanted some company? I know that this takes the "fantasy" (hack, hack) out of the SC experience for a lot of guys, but experience has shown that its the most surefire way of getting the goods delivered.

    I've said it once, I'll say it again, in this age of no standards, no sales training, and chronic "fucko-itis" (dancers getting too clingy to regulars) in most SC's, relying on hints like stage tips and passing glances to show you're interested will all too often leave you disappointed. The way I see it, you can ask for fantasy and walk out with your money, or take some initiative and have your fantasy.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpeters1 View Post
    On the other other hand, I have sat there and had girls come to my table, ask for dance, I politely immediately say no, not wanting to waste anyones time, and I get attitude back. I did not ask for them to come over, and I understand they are trying to make a buck, but I won't spend my money on girls I am not interested in, why is that somehow my fault. Like the other analogy, I am not going to buy a car I don't like, or for a price I won't pay, just because the salesman spent his time trying to sell it to me.
    I'm sure JC Penney spent a lot of time and effort putting jeans out for display. If they don't have my size in the color and fit that I want, I'm not buying any jeans. Of course, they don't make you pay a monetary sum to browse at JC Penney.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpeters1 View Post
    In fact, he might just not like any of the girls that night.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    I don't buy this. Like, not even one? And in that case - what is he doing there? Why didn't he walk in and go "Ugh" and walk out again?
    Its not as cut and dry as it seems. The stock of available dancers in a SC is a very fluid situation. Shift change happens. Some gals go home early. Some come in late. Others spend an inordinate amount of time in the dressing room. Others yet may be occupied with another customer. There are always new faces coming in over the duration of a trip. As long as a guy came in intent on spending money, I see no problem in him holding out until a desirable entertainer is available.

    As far as a customer wasting a dancers' time goes, well unless he explicitly lures a dancer under false pretense that he WILL spend and then doesn't, I don't buy that. Like any other salesperson, it is a dancer's responsibility to read her customer and close the sale. If she takes a half an hour or more chatting up someone who doesn't buy, then I don't see where thats his fault. Again, reliance on hints and gestures can be a very inefficient means of separating the wheat from the chaff.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish View Post
    As long as a guy came in intent on spending money, I see no problem in him holding out until a desirable entertainer is available.
    Sure. I look at it like this... a customer spends let's say $20 for maybe 3 mins of entertainment (plus tip). Call it $400 an hour (again plus tip). Plus cover charge plus drinks. That's a good chunk of money for the vast majority of people. For some guys, he might have worked one or two full days to earn that much money. At that rate, it's just to be expected that a lot of customers are going to be very choosy about who they spend their money on. I sure don't feel guilty for being choosy at that price point.

    One thing I do think is interesting about SCs is that the prices are rarely negotiable. In most other businesses if a product doesn't sell or has reached a price point that has resulted in slow sales, the price can be marked down some to find the sweet spot, or to compete. I can't help but wonder how things would be different if dancers could negotiate the price with customers. I know I'd be far more inclined to take a risk on a lot of dancers if the price was decreased, but at $20 for 3 mins of entertainment, I'm also very choosy how I spend my money.

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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    You don't have to get a lap dance but it is extremely rude to be sitting at the stage and not tip every single girl that dances. Even a dollar. It's just bad manners. If you don't like the girl on stage, you should get up and walk away from the stage. It's wrong to watch her wriggle around naked and not even cough up a buck.
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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    Quote Originally Posted by VegasPrincess View Post
    You don't have to get a lap dance but it is extremely rude to be sitting at the stage and not tip every single girl that dances. Even a dollar. It's just bad manners. If you don't like the girl on stage, you should get up and walk away from the stage. It's wrong to watch her wriggle around naked and not even cough up a buck.
    It bothers me if a guy is sitting at the stage and not tipping all the girls, especially if the club is busy. Yeah, I know, it adds up, but don't sit there if you aren't going to give out $$.

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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    Quote Originally Posted by VegasPrincess View Post
    You don't have to get a lap dance but it is extremely rude to be sitting at the stage and not tip every single girl that dances. Even a dollar. It's just bad manners. If you don't like the girl on stage, you should get up and walk away from the stage. It's wrong to watch her wriggle around naked and not even cough up a buck.
    I'd even go a bit farther and say if a customer is going to sit at the rail, they should tip every girl every song, regardless of whether the customer likes them or not. Obviously that can't be enforced, but it seems fair and reasonable to me. Customers that just sit there taking spots at the rail, and watch the show for free are moochers.

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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Why didn't he walk in and go "Ugh" and walk out again? So really, he likes the girls well enough to stay and enjoy the free show and the free chat.
    I've actually done this a couple of times, but one reason a person might not walk out is if he paid a big cover charge to get in. Cover charges also make the customers feel like they've already paid for the show, so they don't have to tip every girl on the stage. Most customers do not realize the cover charge goes to the club, not the dancers.

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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    i do agree that if you sit at the tip rail or at the very least pay attention to the dancer (who talks in the first row of a show?) but also i think there is a practice in regards to tipping at my club thats kinda dumb ( i dont know if its at your clubs to) if no ones tipping they'll put the girls on break but often times they dont even go through a whole rotation first andthere may be a girl or two in there who might peak some interest at the stage and get the guys a littl emore riled also if only 1 or 2 girls is/are making stage tips they still put eeryone onbreak even if its 8 or10 guys tipping which i dont think is fair because i shouldnt have to loose money casesome f the other girls are going half assed on the stage or sitting there and doing nothing at all. we even have girls who go up to regualars and ask why they didnt tip them but they tipped another girl thats go to ut the custie in an ackward postion. no customer shouldhave to ti a dancer they dont want to.
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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    Sounds good. As a general rule, when I ask for a dance and someone says no sometimes I ask if I can get a different girl for them. If they say no to that too I get miffed, but as long as you're spending on a dancer it doesn't bother me. Never sit at the tip rail if you aren't going to tip! A lot of customers will move from their table to the rail to tip a girl and then go back when she leaves - which is fine.
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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette View Post
    I think too many guys on this site, as usual, take too much of our ranting too personally.
    Not only that, but they don't READ well. We're always complaining about some very specific behavior by a customer and some guys expand their interpretation of that to mean all general behavior remotely related to the same topic when it's not the same thing at all. So they wind up defending themselves for some behavior that is generally considered acceptable when we were complaining about outlandish assholish behavior that doesn't actually describe theirs.

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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish View Post
    relying on hints like stage tips and passing glances to show you're interested will all too often leave you disappointed. The way I see it, you can ask for fantasy and walk out with your money, or take some initiative and have your fantasy.
    This is one thing I will never understand. Be perceptive! If you see someone's looking at you appreciatively, or tips you onstage (even more so if he gives me more than $1 or $2)...go over and ask for a dance! I had another dancer say to me the other night "that guy keeps looking at me". I suggested she go over and chat him up and get a dance with him. her response? "nah, I'm not really sure if he likes me. He might not buy a dance."

    WTF? Maybe he won't, but since he's spent the past twenty minutes gazing and grinning at you, he probably will. Either way, there's only one way to find out!

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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    Quote Originally Posted by Picaresque View Post
    WTF? Maybe he won't, but since he's spent the past twenty minutes gazing and grinning at you, he probably will. Either way, there's only one way to find out!
    Any guy who is doing this is sending his mental energy in an effort to get you to PLEASE, PLEASE come over and ask for a dance.

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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    But in reading some of the threads here recently, the guys are getting slammed pretty hard if they don't tip or get PD's whenever solicited.
    Like Doc-Cat said, this strongly correlates with a general decline in the business in dancer quality, not only physically, but with regard to salesmanship. As a customer in this environment, one needs to just roll with the punches and brush off attitude like so much water. As for the complaint posts here on SW, most girls know they won't appeal to all guys or that many (perhaps a preponderance) of customers suck and have no SC decorum or couth pertaining to norms of spending and dancer respect; can't say as I blame them and there's certainly no harm in their venting. Moreover, as long as they're not talking about you it shouldn't matter.

    Did you explicitly ask a desired dancer that you wanted some company? I know that this takes the "fantasy" (hack, hack) out of the SC experience for a lot of guys, but experience has shown that its the most surefire way of getting the goods delivered.
    It's always astounded me, frankly, but I don't know why guys aren't simply as aggressive in the SC about approaching dancers as they would women OTC, save perhaps that they're social inept OTC. It's and it's not like they're going to say no. Getting fuckoed is another thing, however; a dancer hanging on to her wannabe gangsta, no-spending regular is annoying for all of us since it takes those dancers out of play.

    You don't have to get a lap dance but it is extremely rude to be sitting at the stage and not tip every single girl that dances. Even a dollar. It's just bad manners. If you don't like the girl on stage, you should get up and walk away from the stage. It's wrong to watch her wriggle around naked and not even cough up a buck.
    Agreed. If I'm at the rail, waiting for one dancer to come my way, I'll tip other girls on the stage because I'm there, even if I don't find them appealing. It's just a matter of respect (anyone willing to regularly get naked on the stage in front of frequently clueless, rude and unappreciative men has my respect), and it's not like they're breaking me or anything.

    Why didn't he walk in and go "Ugh" and walk out again?
    Jenny just described my last several excursions to clubs in the last few months, save two visits, and both of those visits were made quite positive by SW girls. More often than not, I'm leaving with a pocket full of $20 and having only paid for the cover and a GG and T. Maybe I'm just too demanding or merely jaded at my advanced age...
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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    It's always astounded me, frankly, but I don't know why guys aren't simply as aggressive in the SC about approaching dancers as they would women OTC, save perhaps that they're social inept OTC. It's and it's not like they're going to say no. Getting fuckoed is another thing, however; a dancer hanging on to her wannabe gangsta, no-spending regular is annoying for all of us since it takes those dancers out of play.
    I don't get this either C.O. To the OP, if you see a dancer you want to dance for you, just go get her. It makes her job easier. They don't say no, although they may say later when they are done with their current customer. Personally I wish this is the way SCs worked. I don't enjoy turning down dancers; I know what I want; I prefer to do the asking anyway. The dancers are there to make money. They really don't object to customers taking the initiative.

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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    ^^
    I wish more guys would just walk right up to me!

    I think some guys are intimidated and then some guys also want the dancer to work for it and get offended when we dont go up to them or something.

    I get intimidated walking up to the guys

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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    Quote Originally Posted by jaizaine View Post
    ^^
    I wish more guys would just walk right up to me!

    I think some guys are intimidated and then some guys also want the dancer to work for it and get offended when we dont go up to them or something.

    I get intimidated walking up to the guys
    Sure. It's human nature. I mean unless the customer is completely dense, it's easy to see that most of the dancers don't enjoy being rejected, even in a business setting. Likewise it's no fun rejecting them, but we customers just can't say yes to every dancer that asks. Personally I'd prefer not be asked so that I don't have to go through the saying no part, but ...

    I do think though that many customers are intimidated by the dancers, and expect to be rejected if they take the initiative, which of course makes little sense considering the context. It's not a bar. It's a stripclub. That's why the girls are there, to sell dances. Unless the customer is completely creepy or stinky or something, the dancers aren't going to say no. There is really little or no risk of rejection if that's what the customer is worried about.

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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    ^^
    I know but some guys dont seem to realise this very slim chance of rejection.

    I have had shy guys say "Oh would you mind dancing for me? would that be ok?" and Im thinking of course why on earth wouldnt I?

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    Default Re: A comment on not tipping or buying

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Moreover, as long as they're not talking about you it shouldn't matter.
    Truly that's the issue. It's a matter of what you identify with. If you identify with the "strapped-for-cash stripclub customer" mentality, than it's easy to feel persecuted by the dancer that's pissed off by that mentality because someone who's strapped for cash decided to be a dick about it.
    It's always astounded me, frankly, but I don't know why guys aren't simply as aggressive in the SC about approaching dancers as they would women OTC, save perhaps that they're social inept OTC. It's and it's not like they're going to say no.
    It IS like they are going to say no. Just cause you don't understand it, and it seems pretty easy to understand, walking into a strip club does NOT leave "fear of rejection" at the door. It's really a gray area. For some customers, the less you're intimidated by a dancer's looks, the EASIER the fantasy is that you could attain her even thus making the transfer of money between hands less noticeable.

    It's just a matter of respect (anyone willing to regularly get naked on the stage in front of frequently clueless, rude and unappreciative men has my respect), and it's not like they're breaking me or anything.
    You know in Toronto, Cally and I just went into a club because I wanted to see what the club LOOKED like. Not only did I tip everyone working there (doorman, 2 waitress, stage dancer, bartender, and another dancer) I still got bitched at on my way out. I was there for LITERALLY less than ten minutes. We'll call it as jenny said "I walked in, said "ugh" and left" Still, cally and I got swore at by dancer at the door. Ten minute visit I blew 28 dollars in tips. Got shit on. Yea, I'll be back.



    Maybe I'm just too demanding or merely jaded at my advanced age...
    Well it's becoming my opinion that most stripclubs are becoming training schools for sexual predators. The shit friends of mine have gone through in the last 4 days is disgusting to think about.

    So, CO. You me and Tampadancer...open a club?
    People are not ruled by their memories.

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