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Thread: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

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    Featured Member Hatshepsut's Avatar
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    Default Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    1) Expect others to speak my language and cater to me. If they don't speak my language, they should make every effort to dumb down their rhetoric for me and interpret my babblings. I'm having a hard time in this new country, so they should take pity on me and make things easier. God knows it's not my responsibility to learn the language. Others should be extra tolerant of me, even though I've lived in the country to 10 years and still haven't learned, and don't even bother to carry around a bilingual dictionary.

    2) Expect to be given a job even though I can't sufficiently read, write, and communicate in the language. Communication with others isn't important, especially if it's in a job in which communication is key, such as the healthcare field. I have common sense and brains, which is all I need. I won't have to be able to read things like biohazardous waste, and I'll never have a patient die on me because a nurse can't understand that I'm trying to tell her than someone is bleeding to death. It's discrimination to not be hired for my lack of communication skills, even though a native person that lacked the same skills would not get the job either.

    3) If I am attending a foreign school, I will expect to have texts in my native language language, or have an interpreter with me at all times. I will do this even if I plan on working in this foreign country, because they need to give me a chance to be myself.

    4) Even if a person explains things to me, asks me if I understand, and tell me not to hesitate if I have any questions, I will still badmouth them behind their back for being rude and insensitive to my needs. If I come from a culture that interprets questions as a sign of stupidity or if I plain out don't want to ask questions for no particular reason, I will keep that mindset even though it severely limits my understanding. I would rather have a tiny chance of an unempathetic person thinking that I'm stupid rather than a 100% chance that they will think that I am a two-faced whiner who needs to take responsibility once they find out about my slander.

    5) To promote myself, I will say, "We (insert my ethnicity/nationality here) work hard, unlike these lazy (people living in the resident country, usually Americans). Yes, I'm surrounded by people in that country, this will not make me very unpopular due to bigotry and snobbery. God knows that my superior race has absolutely no lazy people whatsoever, even if my native country is famed for marrying off its daughters to rich foreigners whom the families use as ATMs. I will refuse to acknowledge that the ones who go overseas are generally the ones who are willing to work hard to make a new life, because EVERYONE in my superior race has an excellent work ethic.



    Man, now I can see why people dread tourists from other countries. I'm working as a secretary in a health career school, and we get tons of international people. Most of them are very nice, and are attending the school to further themselves in this new world. However, there are some really rude ones, and I'm seeing a lot of the above qualities in almost all of them. Today, a Vietnamese lady came in and flunked the basic reading comprehension test. Her daughter started whining about how she's really a smart woman (we didn't doubt that at all), and that she has common sense, which makes her more cautious, and that she'd be a good nurse aide. I tried to explain to her that communication can literally be a matter of life and death, especially in the healthcare field, and that it didn't matter if she had a Ph.D if she couldn't communicate with others. She got very pissy and huffy, accused me of being insensitive and racist, and told me that I should be more sympathetic to her and give her a chance. For Chrissakes, it's not racism if the person is unable to read and write enough English on a fifth grade level. Such people would probably be unable to benefit from the schooling. I certainly wouldn't want her taking care of me in a nursing home or hospital if I couldn't tell her that I'm getting a bedsore. Yeesh, and people stereotype Americans as being egocentric.

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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    I'm scared of this thread.


    * looks around for a place to hide...QUICK! *



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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    Wow I give Hatshepsut the "controversial threads" award. I'm in a pretty good mood, so I'm not going to debate. There are some countries where speaking english is actually adequate for getting work, if you qualify and have papers. For example, the Netherlands. But this is because almost all Dutch speak english and would prefer to use it to communicate rather than hear their own language butchered. However, I did everything in my power to learn as much Dutch as possible. Natives still preferred to converse in English. But that's just one example.....

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    cameron_keys
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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    I actually agree 100%. It is extremely rude and arrogant to move to another country and refuse to speak the native language. I realize that learning another language is difficult and as long as people are trying..I am more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. BUT...here in South Fl I see more that simply refuse. They can live and work in communities where they dont have to ...so they dont bother. And they will tell you that. (I understand Spanish well enough to have had his coversation MANY times). It is purely disrespectful.

    I would never even consider moving,living and working in a foreign country without learning the language.

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    Kaylinn
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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    I live in Vegas. We have tons of forigners living here that don't have a stong grasp of english. I don't mind, Im a very accepting person.

    All I ask is that they stop working with the public. Please, please, if you cannot speak English, don't work in the front where you deal with customers. Work in the back doing somethign that doesn't require customer interaction.

    Because I'm getting damn ired of not being able to order at Mcdonalds!
    I went to Mc Donalds one day, to order the pancakes. Now, you'd think that if they ae putting a guy on the drive through, he would know at LEAST the english words for everythign on the menu, right?
    No. I could not order my damn pancakes. PANCAKES. Thats all I wanted. After sitting at the damn speaker saying PANCAKES over and over, finally, I had to drive up to the window and point at a menu. THAT is ridiculous.

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    God/dess Lysondra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatshepsut View Post
    1) Expect others to speak my language and cater to me. If they don't speak my language, they should make every effort to dumb down their rhetoric for me and interpret my babblings. I'm having a hard time in this new country, so they should take pity on me and make things easier. God knows it's not my responsibility to learn the language. Others should be extra tolerant of me, even though I've lived in the country to 10 years and still haven't learned, and don't even bother to carry around a bilingual dictionary..
    Hey I went so far as to learn the spelling and accent of my new home country.


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    Featured Member Hatshepsut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    Oh, I'm all for them getting jobs that fit their abilities, and I'm all for them seeking a better life over here. However, this woman wants to work a job that can literally be a matter of life or death. This woman was not proficient enough in this language to pass the test. It was simple enough: People who don't pass cannot enter the class. It doesn't matter if they are American, Nigerian, Vietnamese, or Martian. However, when I tried to explain why we couldn't accept her, they went apeshit. I point out the truth, and I'm called intolerant for saying that someone who holds lives in her hands would have a hard time telling others. It's not just about her intelligence, because she's very intelligent in her native language. However, those brains aren't worth dirt in that job unless she can communicate with others, especially when communication is so crucial.


    Would you trust her to take care of you? Would it be wrong of the school to license a woman who may be potentially dangerous when caring for patients? It could be indirect death. Remember the Italian doctor in The Godfather? The one who hosted Michael in Italy when he was on the lam? The one who Micheal wouldn't allow to perform surgery on his face? That doc even admitted that he didn't understand his medical textbooks, but was helped along by the Mafia to become a doctor. Michael didn't trust him for obvious reasons. Did the mob do a favor for the doc and others by making him a doctor even though he did not have the qualities needed? Would you trust her to do patient care and communicate with the nurses?


    It's been a long week at work, and I've dealt with many people like the above woman. I treated them almost like I treated everybody else (I'd spend more time explaining instructions and stuff) and I was still labeled intolerant.

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    Veteran Member pennygirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    until you walk in someone's shoes.....

    as for learning the language i agree people should make the effort to do that but think about it .. if you are here and dont have much money and don't know many people outside of your family/friends... and dont know the language.. just FINDING where to go to learn the language is difficult.. i know its everywhere and free like at schools and stuff.. but you have to find it and know where to look and have transportation to get there.. and have someone watch your kids while you go .. its not an excuse but just saying its not as easy as it sounds sometimes people just get wrapped up in "surviving"
    I do think schools help .. like at my son's school i think if they get wind the kids come from homes speaking another language they send stuff home with the kids letting the parents know where to learn english for free
    just saying its easy to look down on peoples for not doing this or that but alot of times there are things behind the scenes going on that we dont know about

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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    Quote Originally Posted by pennygirl View Post
    until you walk in someone's shoes.....

    as for learning the language i agree people should make the effort to do that but think about it .. if you are here and dont have much money and don't know many people outside of your family/friends... and dont know the language.. just FINDING where to go to learn the language is difficult.. i know its everywhere and free like at schools and stuff.. but you have to find it and know where to look and have transportation to get there.. and have someone watch your kids while you go .. its not an excuse but just saying its not as easy as it sounds sometimes people just get wrapped up in "surviving"
    I do think schools help .. like at my son's school i think if they get wind the kids come from homes speaking another language they send stuff home with the kids letting the parents know where to learn english for free
    just saying its easy to look down on peoples for not doing this or that but alot of times there are things behind the scenes going on that we dont know about
    Be that as it may, if you can't speak the language, do not expect to be able to do whatever job you please. If you don't like it, feel free to move back to the country you came from. I, for one, am getting tired of people who can't understand what I am saying when I order food or need help on the phone, and I damn sure don't want someone who can't speak English treating me medically or being involved in ANY way in my medical care.

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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaylinn View Post
    I live in Vegas. We have tons of forigners living here that don't have a stong grasp of english. I don't mind, Im a very accepting person.

    All I ask is that they stop working with the public. Please, please, if you cannot speak English, don't work in the front where you deal with customers. Work in the back doing somethign that doesn't require customer interaction.

    Because I'm getting damn ired of not being able to order at McDonalds!
    I went to McDonalds one day, to order the pancakes. Now, you'd think that if they ae putting a guy on the drive through, he would know at LEAST the english words for everything on the menu, right?
    No. I could not order my damn pancakes. PANCAKES. Thats all I wanted. After sitting at the damn speaker saying PANCAKES over and over, finally, I had to drive up to the window and point at a menu. THAT is ridiculous.
    He was programmed in MdDonaldish what do you expect? I think McDonalds calls them Hot Cakes actually.
    http://www.mcdonalds.com/corp/news/m...fast_menu.html


    I go to bloody Starbucks in the USA in bloody middle of Florida county boy don't understand Small Medium and Large, ya bloody have to tell 'em grande.... f**** that before I've had my morning cup of coffee... LOL -Happened in LA as well.

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    Last edited by cherryripeboyII; 05-25-2007 at 09:50 PM. Reason: too tired must rest
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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    my sportbike forum has a great emoticon where a smiley hides in front of the computer and they both slowly move off the viewer's space...

    this has "member's boards" all over it. ...potentially. if people REALLY contribute how they feel.

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    Kaylinn
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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    hotcakes, pancakes, same damn thing, LOL

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    Featured Member Hatshepsut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    Oh yeah... Member Boards... I'm a retired stripper, so I got into the habit of looking at the Stripping General, Lounge, Ladies Only, and Body Business. The others kind of disappeared in my mind.

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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    ^^ i didn't mean it to be insulting... I like your posts, they make people really think... they're just controversial. nothing wrong with controversy in the right context.
    Last edited by Embyr; 05-26-2007 at 06:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    Wow I give Hatshepsut the "controversial threads" award.
    I do too, and that is not necessarily a good thing







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    Featured Member Hatshepsut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    Quote Originally Posted by pennygirl View Post
    until you walk in someone's shoes.....

    as for learning the language i agree people should make the effort to do that but think about it .. if you are here and dont have much money and don't know many people outside of your family/friends... and dont know the language.. just FINDING where to go to learn the language is difficult.. i know its everywhere and free like at schools and stuff.. but you have to find it and know where to look and have transportation to get there.. and have someone watch your kids while you go .. its not an excuse but just saying its not as easy as it sounds sometimes people just get wrapped up in "surviving"
    I do think schools help .. like at my son's school i think if they get wind the kids come from homes speaking another language they send stuff home with the kids letting the parents know where to learn english for free
    just saying its easy to look down on peoples for not doing this or that but alot of times there are things behind the scenes going on that we dont know about
    I have been in those shoes. I was in China, in which only some of the younger, educated generation is proficient in English. I was immersed, and you either sink or swim. Yes, it was hard, and I was very frustrated at times. However, I got around. I carried a bilingual dictionary and a Berlitz manual at all times, which were great aides in communication. If communication became difficult, I'd point to the word in the bilingual dictionary, and they would do the same. I did not speak English to the people unless they spoke to me in English first. I used what little Chinese I did know, and I was always willing to pick up and learn whenever and wherever I could. If I was taking a dump, I'd read the soap and shampoo labels. I'd go to grocery stores and marketplaces and ask for help finding things, and most people were happy to speak a little bit more slowly.

    If I had decided to stay at the Chinese school, I would have taken the entrance exam just like everybody else who wanted to enter (I came on an exchange program for a semester, it wasn't actually entering the university). I would have flunked the exam due to my insufficient skills, but I wouldn't piss and moan that I should be given special privileges even though evety student from every other country gets the same exam. I also wouldn't get pissy if I couldn't get a job due to this lack of skills. I wouldn't expect people to make special exceptions for me in general.

    Yes, it's hard, and it may not be their fault that they didn't pick up. However, this means that their options are limited. Again, I would not have trusted her to care for others in healthcare setting. Man, now that I look back, her daughter greatly reminded me of helicopter parents who storm into the parent-teacher claiming, "My son is very intelligent, you're just not giving him a chance. He needs a different way of learning." (Yes, I know that the present education educations system sucks, especially with No Child Left Behind, but the point of, "I need to be made an exception" still stands).
    Last edited by Hatshepsut; 05-26-2007 at 07:07 AM.

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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    Quote Originally Posted by cinammonkisses View Post
    I do too, and that is not necessarily a good thing

    I agree. I like your ideas, Hatshepsut....but sometimes it just gets tiring. I like some controversy, don't get me wrong...but I come on this site to chill, relax and have fun. Oh well...to each their own I always say. Do your thang.



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    Moderator Optimist's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    If you're not in the mood then don't click on the thread. When child abuse threads are posted no one gets pissy. When drunk driving or pervy cop threads are posted no one gets pissy. The Lounge has never been a 100% warm and fuzzy place.
    You have to take personal responsibility instead of trying to censor what subjects people can discuss. No one on this board is a victim so take your sense of power back.

    I think you're 100% correct by the way, Hatshepsut.
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    God/dess cinammonkisses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimist View Post
    If you're not in the mood then don't click on the thread. When child abuse threads are posted no one gets pissy. When drunk driving or pervy cop threads are posted no one gets pissy. The Lounge has never been a 100% warm and fuzzy place.
    You have to take personal responsibility instead of trying to censor what subjects people can discuss. No one on this board is a victim so take your sense of power back.

    I think you're 100% correct by the way, Hatshepsut.
    That's hypocritical though Op. It's one thing to talk about the wrongs of childabuse and drunk driving. Those are serious issues that affect people in this country and world.

    But it's another when people post things that are racially/culturally sensitive. That is not cool, no matter what. And I've noticed that people here are much more into closing threads that are racially and culturally insensitive.







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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    I agree with you Hatshepsut. I definitly don't think it's racist to not want someone to treat me medically because they don't speak english.
    When I was in middle school, I had to take japanese. Problem was, the teacher didn't speak ONE word of english!!!! Now, I went to middle school in the city of Atlanta. Do you know the torcher the class put this lady through because she couldn't tell them to calm down or punish them, because she couldn't speak our language!!! People who come here and don't speak a lick of english just shouldn't expect to be placed with jobs that require english as a first language. It's for both
    our sake AND theirs if you ask me.

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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    Quote Originally Posted by cinammonkisses View Post
    That's hypocritical though Op. It's one thing to talk about the wrongs of childabuse and drunk driving. Those are serious issues that affect people in this country and world.

    But it's another when people post things that are racially/culturally sensitive. That is not cool, no matter what. And I've noticed that people here are much more into closing threads that are racially and culturally insensitive.

    Let me note that the original complaint was that the Lounge is not a place for unpleasant topics. So the point was to weigh whether this was the only unpleasant topic in that section.

    I'm not sure if you mean I'm being hypocritical or Hatshepsut. However, I'd like to know how you feel about someone treating you who cannot communicate with you and cannot communicate with any of your other healthcare providers? I would not feel comfortable with that. Hatshepsut has not bashed their culture or language but their arrogance. Lest their be any misunderstnading--my primary care physician is a Philipina as are her nurses and she can break treatment down like no one else. THAT'S why she has had my trust and money for 15 years.

    YOU may believe childabuse and drunk driving are serious concerns that affect everybody. Guess what, to some parents what we poo-poo as abuse they see as good, strong discipline and find complaints about bruises on children offensive. They find the intrusion of nosy-ass society in how they rear THEIR children as un-American! Many members felt what Paris Hilton did (drunk driving) was a joke not a serious concern. "So what, she's done it over and over, she only exceeded the blood alcohol limit by 2/10 of a point!" Drunk driving IS a joke to many. They feed their children and their children's friends beer, then let them drive. Some judges repeatedly let drunk driver walk with minimum punishment.
    Last edited by Optimist; 05-26-2007 at 09:49 AM.
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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    Fine. I'll speak. Hatshepsut, I DO tend to agree with you... HOwever, I also feel that when one takes these feelings out of the context of cultural sensitivity and greater worldliness (i.e. the ladies of SW) they OBViously become the basis for xenophobia, ethnocentrism, and even racism. Living in Souther California, where there is a HUGE illigal immigrant population, I see this debate raging in my community... and right now I actually agree with Bush (wow) to give citizenship to those already here but make it tougher for new illigals to enter... there is such a drain on our community resources/taxpayer money as it is (no thanks to him and Ahhnold)... and I DO witness what you are talking about... even at my club, I am told at least once a day that I should learn to habla espanol. Would it be useful? You bet. Is it "fair" that I should learn the "alien" tongue when many of them have so far to go to learn language of their new country? Probably not, but I really don't care about "fairness" in this situation, I'm a liberal, and I want the least hostility for the greatest amount of people, illegal or not. So I've kinda swept this issue under the rug.

    I will say though, that when a fellow American says they had a bad time in France, I immediately respond, "you don't speak French, do you?" And I've been right 100% of the time. The French are a people that are (well, as WE probably are) much more forthcoming if you bother to TRY to speak the language.

    alright, those are my thoughts on the issue. i don't wanna argue either.

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    Veteran Member TheLioness's Avatar
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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    This isn't nearly as controversial, demeaning, rude, inconsiderate, offending and hurtful as the "patience" pic in the "funniest pics" thread in picture post. That shit made me cry and I rarely get offended by anything. I think it's on page 28?

    My point is, as hard as you try, there is always going to be someone who will get offended by something you say. I see the op's point, as well as others that have posted on this thread. I even agree to a point.

    By the way, have you all heard about the food production issues we're having because we don't have enough migrant workers to work the farms? They're blaming it on the tightened security at the borders. A lot of the food that we grow in America is now rotting because americans refuse to do that kind of work.

  24. #24
    Kaylinn
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    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    I kind of mentioned this eariler...that living in vegas has really opened my eyes. In Pittsburgh, everyone was either black or white. There were no different cultures.

    I love that vegas has a mix of everyone on earth. I have probably met someoen from every country on Earth. I love that. I have learned soo much.
    A lot of people here speak very broken english, it's hard to understand sometimes.

    I had a friend when I worked at a casino, he was from Etheopia. He spoke very little english, and couldnt read or write it at all. He was a dealer in a casino. He go tthe job because he could add to 21.

    I started tutoring him in English, and he taught me some...Ethepoian( I cannot remember what that language is called, dammit!) He even taught me how to write a little.

    My boyfriend has picked up a little bit of several diffrent languages from being around it so much. I love that. Now..if I hadn't lvied in such a diverse area, I would have never learned so much.

    I had a dealer once at a casino, when I asked where he was from, he just said, Middle East. He wouldn't tell me exactly where. When I pushed him a little, he admited to being Arabic. He was very embarassed to admit hat, and afriad of being judged. How sad that a man can't admit his country for fear of being judged and mistreated. That hurts me and pisses me off that peopel can be so closed minded and mean.

    Ok...I'm getting off topic.

    I learned that in order to live better in Vegas, I need to learn Spanish, at the very least. I don;t mind at all. I haven't learned much yet, but Im hopign to take a class and become fluent.

    The fact remains, with anythign in life, change what you can, and learn to live with the rest. I would rather learn to live HAPPILY with what I cannot change. If that means learning a language to better communicate with people in my country, then so be it. Such is life.

    I just want them to learn the word pancakes in english, then I will be happy

  25. #25
    Kaylinn
    Guest

    Default Re: Things I WILL NOT do when visiting or living in a foreign country

    But oh yeah...

    This is def. member boards material...and with the lounge being modless sorta...we should all try our best to keep it clean in here.....

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