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Thread: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    Ok, I don't know if my opinion or information is very warranted here. I don't want to become emotional over this or take something personally. Melonie is a very intelligent and informed person, but there are other ways to look at investing, savings,etc.

    Let me ask everyone who reads this thread, is there any point in anyone else contributing, or will most posters just go along with anything that Melonie states...as gospel? Now, I am not here to bash Melonie, she does have years of experience in this arena. But are you interested in alternate perspectives to the "tinfoil hat" crowd?

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    always.

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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    Of course! Everyones experiences vary.







    Some Douchebag: "[Pimp C] 12:43 am: its true we got to stick together the black people on SW CK you is teh condoleeza of SW"


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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    You bet -- are you ready to start making weekly talking point posts and using random ironic quotes when not appropriate?

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    it's a free country, a free website, and a free forum. Posts from all financial viewpoints are welcome. One of the key truisms of 'bearish' investing (which I generally adhere to personally) is that 'the markets can remain irrational longer than the 'bearish' investor can stay solvent" !

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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    But are you interested in alternate perspectives to the "tinfoil hat" crowd?
    Yes, certainly. There are about 7 different posters whose financial advice I hold in high regard, and I LIKE differing opinions and advice because the DIScREpancies between the posts are what actually give me the most insight into a topic... if most everyone agrees on an issue, then I can easily take something as "fact" (i.e. my credit score will suck if I am consistently late or default with all my payments). Often a subject will warrant further research, especially after viewing conflicting or differing viewpoints (i.e. mutual funds vs. cd's if inflation was high and the dollar wasn't performing well on the international market) but either way, having only 1 view, 1 investing style, 1 set of experiences and resources, as awesome and informatve as she is , is ultimately limiting and ineffective.

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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    Ok, I'm just not really seeing it in regards to the savings and investments areas. Yes, lots of people are great and knowledgeable contributors in regards to credit issues, real estate, mortgages, etc.....but I don't see many people NOT looking at the Melonie view of things.

    What I see if that everyone is afraid of getting into the market because Melonie says its too unstable before the election. Well, there's never a "great" time to get into the market according to the conspiracy theorists and "bearish" analysts. But most people who have done their homework can fare very well in equities at any given time if they diversify and don't simply focus on chasing returns. But I'm not seeing a lot of interest here, just more doom and gloom.

    Yes, we'll probably see a recession soon, but that's MORE reason to make your money work hard for you, not keep it under your mattress, or in a safe, to erode against inflation. Oh hell, perhaps I don't know what I'm talking about either..........

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    Hrmmm... I see what you're talking about- and yes, it does seem as though that's been the general wave of the board- cd's and other "safer" options while we hold our collective breath. Well, I am guilty of being one of the sheep... but not because of Melonie's advice alone... I had a thread (you posted in it as well, and believe me, your advice was certainly taken to heart) about investing in a bond fund, which then turned into a "if not then what" type thing... I ultimately decided to open a capital one MM fund... why? melonie mentioned safety and higher yields in CD's and discussed liqudity options. You mentioned that I was young so I could afford to take som risk and take good w/ bad over a longer period of time... which stuck with me, and believe me, I will... My customers who are stock brokers told me to wait to invest in mutuals 'til after the election. And the poster RobertJordan mentioned the C O MM account. so I guess it was his advice after all. Hence the important of many viewpoints. Glad you posted this.

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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    Money market accounts and CD's are very important too, especially for IC who require more liquidity than the average employed wage earner. But after a certain point, you want you money to work hard for you. Then you need to start looking into generating income/gains off of your investments, ie equity mutual funds, stocks, options, ETF, direct real estate, REIT, commodity funds, actual hard assets, commodity options, collectibles, and a bunch of other available instruments....

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    I actually don't pay much attention to here due to the fact that it is primarily set up (and the majority of information) is for USA people.

    I'm also a member of other forums:
    http://www.propertyinvesting.com/forums
    http://www.invested.com.au/forums
    http://www.somersoft.com/forums/
    http://www.money-talk.org/board.html

    The last one "Money Talk" is also great for US based people mainly just that there are a few topics on that forum that even someone who isn't USA based (like me) can benefit from ....

    This is a stripping website mainly afterall so I rather talk 'investing' etc on forums that are more focused on that topic than here (also because the majority of posters on the other forums are full time or at least experienced investors). That's just me tho'


    enter: E3167322D9 for your 10% discount

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    Featured Member Wwanderer's Avatar
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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    I only dip into this forum occasionally and have read only a tiny fraction of its total volume/contents, but fwiiw, I get the impression that a large fraction of the threads are simply expressions of one or more investing philosophies or styles. Whatever the particular topic/market/option under discussion, some posters (usually led by Mel to the extent I have noticed) are expressing a fairly extreme (compared to the average person with money involved in whateve is being discussed) risk aversion (cautiousness, bearishness...whatever you want to call it). Others may or may not be arguing for a more aggressive/speculative/risky stance.

    This is all fine as far as it goes, but it also a sort of simple view of investing and ends up not conveying a lot of new information. The basic point is that if you are more cautious than most in your investments, you are less likely to take big losses at the price of also being less likely to achieve big profits. Alternatively, if you are less cautious than most, the advantage and disadvantage are the reverse (greater risk of big losses but greater chance of big gains). Once you have absorbed this fairly obvious point, it mostly seems to be a matter of deciding what trade-off makes the most sense for you as an individual, and of course, no one can really make that call for you.

    Also, I have not seen a lot of discussion here (but maybe I just missed it) of investment strategies which diversify risks (i.e., some money invested very safely and some very aggressively)...which, imo, is what makes the most sense for most people.

    -Ww
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    As the Truth eternally reveals itself,
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    This very body is the Body of the Buddha."
    - Zazen Wasan

  12. #12
    Sitri
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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    Ok, I don't know if my opinion or information is very warranted here. I don't want to become emotional over this or take something personally. Melonie is a very intelligent and informed person, but there are other ways to look at investing, savings,etc.

    Let me ask everyone who reads this thread, is there any point in anyone else contributing, or will most posters just go along with anything that Melonie states...as gospel? Now, I am not here to bash Melonie, she does have years of experience in this arena. But are you interested in alternate perspectives to the "tinfoil hat" crowd?
    Kat,

    You've been around longer than me. You don't need to ask permission to post your viewpoint. I enjoy reading everyone's point of view.

    Let's see what you've got.. I am ready to read the gospel according to Kat. .. as long as you don't expect tithing or some sort of communion ritual concerning my anal orifice.

    BTW, my ELKs have performed wonderfully.

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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    Ok, I don't know if my opinion or information is very warranted here. I don't want to become emotional over this or take something personally. Melonie is a very intelligent and informed person, but there are other ways to look at investing, savings,etc.

    Let me ask everyone who reads this thread, is there any point in anyone else contributing, or will most posters just go along with anything that Melonie states...as gospel? Now, I am not here to bash Melonie, she does have years of experience in this arena. But are you interested in alternate perspectives to the "tinfoil hat" crowd?
    I'd be thrilled if you decided to contribute more. You're super intelligent, perceptive and experienced and write in good prose.


    I think I'm with Melonie on most points though. On the currency issue, it was pretty glaringly obvious that the US dollar was in need of serious decline, and most of the information in the market points to further weakness.

    As for an impending recession in the USA I'm not sure but I think it's more a matter of 'when' than 'if' it happens.

    And I see the neccessary conclusion of the "tin foil hat" position as one of sitting on her hands and waiting for the impending doom. I've been advocating ramping up the diversification: Hong Kong shares, fixed interest, Australian Shares, Euros, physical gold and sharemarket-traded-gold-securities and whatever other speculation as per the individual's choices.

    edit: typo - 1st sentence in last para should read "And I DON'T see..."
    Last edited by salsa4ever; 05-27-2007 at 07:48 PM.

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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    Yes yes yes, please post Kat! I personally look at things from all viewpoints (financially anyway) and I'm still trying to figure out which routes I'm most comfortable with when it comes to retirement, savings, CD's, investing, etc. The more opinions, the better!
    I believe you Dottie and you have my support

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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    I do apologize for not posting more. I took a short leave from work, but usually I deal with financial matters 12-14 hours a day, so I am spending my entire day working the markets. But the work I do is really for LONG-TERM financial planning, with lots of RISK MANAGEMENT for the short-term. Since I look at equities with a LT perspective, events like dollar depreciation and impending recession don't matter as much as diversification.

    As far as ST things like liquidity, bond laddering, and adequate insurance, I am very conservative and am in agreement with Mel. But the point is, I don't always have the energy to post all of my financial views because it would involved lots of definitions and explaining...you know, things I usually get paid for. THEN, I would have to counter any arguments made against me. And that's fine, but it becomes frustrating that everything is made into a political and speculative issue. So, I don't know.........

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    And that's fine, but it becomes frustrating that everything is made into a political and speculative issue
    I've been tap dancing about this aspect for years. Unfortunately, the conclusion that I came to is that non-market based economic forces like tax increases, threats of tariffs being enacted on imported products, subsidizing certain industries while scrutinizing certain other industries, Fed monetary policy etc. DO have major effects on the US economy, the US dollar's exchange rate, and US stock market price levels. As such, I also came to the conclusion that these factors are too large to simply ignore.


    Whatever the particular topic/market/option under discussion, some posters (usually led by Mel to the extent I have noticed) are expressing a fairly extreme (compared to the average person with money involved in whateve is being discussed) risk aversion (cautiousness, bearishness...whatever you want to call it). Others may or may not be arguing for a more aggressive/speculative/risky stance.
    This is another area that I have grappled with. As was pointed out by others, there are lots of investor websites available which cover every investor sentiment from perma-bullish to 'sky is falling' bearish, and which cover nearly every conceivable type of domestic or foreign investment instrument and strategy. Certainly there are posters / visitors to SW Dollar Den who are experienced and capable of taking advantage of these investment instruments and strategies.

    However, based on posts and PM's, it would appear that a good number of Dollar Den visitors have very little knowledge or experience re investing. Many appear to be surrounding their basic personal finances for the first time, and are seeking to 'get their feet wet' in the area of investments. Keeping in mind that would-be investors with little knowledge or experience are not really in a position to accurately assess risk, I tend to err toward the conservative when posting in Dollar Den. After all there is probably nothing more demoralizing than losing money on your first investment, and I think that we can all agree that at least there isn't any clear uptrend in the US economy / stock markets at this moment which would tend to forgive investing 'mistakes'.

    For the record, when asked, I have posted about my Euro denominated investments, gold bars, gold miner stocks, Hong Kong stocks, ETF's etc. But unlike Jim Cramer or investment boards, I have not wanted to take a position re any potential investment discussed in Dollar Den that could be interpreted as 'Touting'.

    THEN, I would have to counter any arguments made against me.
    Hopefully I have never brought counter-arguments just for the sake of arguing. If I do, don't be afraid to whump me upside the head. Again going back to the point that would-be investors with little knowledge or experience are not really in a position to accurately assess risk, if some position DOES involve downside risk that may not be immediately obvious I feel somewhat obligated to point out that risk.

    This is all fine as far as it goes, but it also a sort of simple view of investing and ends up not conveying a lot of new information. The basic point is that if you are more cautious than most in your investments, you are less likely to take big losses at the price of also being less likely to achieve big profits. Alternatively, if you are less cautious than most, the advantage and disadvantage are the reverse (greater risk of big losses but greater chance of big gains).
    And herein lies an unresolved issue. Should the Dollar Den consist of basic financial and investment discussion more or less aimed at a 'target audience' of young dancers, or should it progress to a full blown discussion among 'seasoned' investors ? Maybe it can do both !!! I'm certainly open to changes.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 05-27-2007 at 01:34 PM.

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    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    One of the most important lessons that I have learned about investing was that if you did not understand a particular financial instrument, it was wise not to sink your money into it until you at least knew the basics.

    My thoughts are that a MB dedicated largely to exotic dancing is NOT the best place to learn those basics, particularly on a subject where what works for one member who has unique circumstances regarding income, taxes, current living situation, may not be the best solution for another. There are numerous other websites where such information can be obtained, and for free no less, not to mention scads of print publications that can be acquired rather cheaply.

    With that said, there's nothing wrong with everyone sharing their perspectives here, just as long as no one's perspective is taken as gospel. Scrutinize everything folks.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    Quote Originally Posted by doc-catfish View Post
    One of the most important lessons that I have learned about investing was that if you did not understand a particular financial instrument, it was wise not to sink your money into it until you at least knew the basics.

    My thoughts are that a MB dedicated largely to exotic dancing is NOT the best place to learn those basics, particularly on a subject where what works for one member who has unique circumstances regarding income, taxes, current living situation, may not be the best solution for another. There are numerous other websites where such information can be obtained, and for free no less, not to mention scads of print publications that can be acquired rather cheaply.

    With that said, there's nothing wrong with everyone sharing their perspectives here, just as long as no one's perspective is taken as gospel. Scrutinize everything folks.
    ^^^what he said.

    I've been in the financial services industry for 10 years now and I know that I certainly don't have all the answers. Bringing differing opinions and strategies is a good thing as I see it. So I say bring it on Kat.

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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    Melonie, you are incredible! You really do take the time out to explain things. And I don't find that you argue for the sake of argument, at least not in DollarDen, lol!! But you do keep me on my feet, and I feel that in order to be credible, I must also site additional charts and links to my various ethoses. And often I get my information from the propriety tools I use during the day, plus the shared knowledge of senior advisors and analysts I work with. So I don't feel like having to "show my work" if that makes sense?

    And erring on the side of conservative also makes sense. But I disagree that recommending that people put a chunk of their investments in gold-instruments is risk averse. Too much risk, no diversification! What happens when they price of gold takes a nosedive and the investor must liquidate at a loss? Gold is volatile, although I can't say I don't recommend it to my investors. I certainly do!

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

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    Banned Katrine's Avatar
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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard_Head View Post
    ^^^what he said.

    I've been in the financial services industry for 10 years now and I know that I certainly don't have all the answers. Bringing differing opinions and strategies is a good thing as I see it. So I say bring it on Kat.
    Agreed. I am but a novice in the field compared to you! I'm open to new ideas myself.

    "Have you ever been to American wedding? Where is the vodka, where's marinated herring?" - GB
    "And do the cats give a shit? No, they do not. Why? Because they're cats."-from The Onion

    Quote Originally Posted by Mia M
    If a cupcake was tossed at me... well, I'd only be upset if it missed my mouth

  21. #21
    Jay Zeno
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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    I've not looked in this section for a long time because, no offense, it seemed to be somewhat monolithic with the same sorts of dread pessimism that I've heard since the mid-1970s (markets will nuke out and only things like gold, silver, coins, and art will be worth anything), and fairly politically charged. I'd enjoy a rounded discussion on financial strategies.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    And often I get my information from the propriety tools I use during the day, plus the shared knowledge of senior advisors and analysts I work with. So I don't feel like having to "show my work" if that makes sense?
    that makes perfect sense to me ! I also hit the same sort of dilemma when some tidbit comes in my direction as a result of a paid investor service or a personal discussion with someone who could be considered an 'insider'.

    Thinking more about this topic, I have absolutely no objection whatsoever if some of you wish to 'broaden' the discussion - in fact I welcome it. I also have no objection to bullish or speculative opinions and positions being discussed, providing that some effort is made to also lay out the potential downside risk for those Dollar Den readers who may not be aware such risks exist.

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    Featured Member Wwanderer's Avatar
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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    However, based on posts and PM's, it would appear that a good number of Dollar Den visitors have very little knowledge or experience re investing. Many appear to be surrounding their basic personal finances for the first time, and are seeking to 'get their feet wet' in the area of investments. Keeping in mind that would-be investors with little knowledge or experience are not really in a position to accurately assess risk, I tend to err toward the conservative when posting in Dollar Den. After all there is probably nothing more demoralizing than losing money on your first investment, and I think that we can all agree that at least there isn't any clear uptrend in the US economy / stock markets at this moment which would tend to forgive investing 'mistakes'.
    ...

    Should the Dollar Den consist of basic financial and investment discussion more or less aimed at a 'target audience' of young dancers
    This strikes me as a very sensible point, namely that this forum mostly addresses a particular audience of investors and that its fiscal "philosophy" ought to be appropriate to that group, which is not necessarily the optimum one for investors in general. In fact I am nearly convinced that the DD's typical rather conservative stance might be about right.

    However, this same quote reveals, imo, a basic/natural psychological effect, one might even say "fallacy", which tends to make people learn to err on the side of caution from their investment experiences. The point is that you lose just as much money, in a rational sense, 1) by refraining from taking a chance on an investment that would have made you, say, $10K as 2) by taking an investment risk that ends up losing you $10K. Either way, you are out that amount of money. However, for the vast majority of people, you end up feeling much worse about #2 than #1. In fact, many people will never even notice that they lost money in scenario #1, especially if it takes a little time to play out, just a year or two is normally enough. They will forget that they even considered the investment or will never bother to check and see what would have happened if they had made it.

    One could argue that young and inexperienced investors need to learn the costs of being too conservative, of missed opportunities, as well as the costs of not being cautious enough.

    -Ww
    "At this moment what more need we seek?
    As the Truth eternally reveals itself,
    This very place is the Lotus Land of Purity,
    This very body is the Body of the Buddha."
    - Zazen Wasan

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    Featured Member Wwanderer's Avatar
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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Zeno View Post
    I've not looked in this section for a long time because, no offense, it seemed to be somewhat monolithic with the same sorts of dread pessimism that I've heard since the mid-1970s (markets will nuke out and only things like gold, silver, coins, and art will be worth anything), ...
    I agree, and indeed this is a perhaps the best statement so far in the thread of what seems a bit out of balance to some of us. Specifically, it seems to be dominated by a fairly common (outside SW I mean) and strongly bearish perspective that has a historical (decades at least) and well established pattern of being too pessimistic overall and in the long term, although sometimes accurate and useful in the short.

    As JZ will also perhaps recall, I can't help being reminded of the confident assertions that the price of gold would soon be higher than the DJI back in the 1970s. Or of the many who stayed cautiously clear of the stock markets during their extended 1990s run up and then felt vindicated by the "collapse" that took away only a modest fraction of those gains in the early years of the new century.

    -Ww
    "At this moment what more need we seek?
    As the Truth eternally reveals itself,
    This very place is the Lotus Land of Purity,
    This very body is the Body of the Buddha."
    - Zazen Wasan

  25. #25
    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: For Anyone who posts in Dollar Den, please read!

    Again going back to the point that would-be investors with little knowledge or experience are not really in a position to accurately assess risk, if some position DOES involve downside risk that may not be immediately obvious I feel somewhat obligated to point out that risk.
    ^^This point that Melonie makes gives a basic overtone as to why I would CURRENTLY listen to her advice before most other people in my life or on the internet. Speaking as someone who is only very basically financially equipped and still very much learning (as are most people), I respect what she has to say. I always respect the opinions of people who know more about a particular subject than I do. Through this learning, I can then decipher whether or not I agree with them. But at least I have that knowledge. The facts are not always easy to find either. Any facts about something I need to know are always welcome.
    Most of what Melonie has truly helped me with are issues with taxes. She's in the adult business (or was) and financially intelligent...it makes sense that I would pay attention to what she has to say. I appreciate her existence on this board very much, and she is almost always first to answer a question that we ask in the DD. She is a big presence here, and I think that's why most people take her advice.
    Now, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't listen to anybody else. In fact, I love having about 5 or 6 opinions about a topic. The more, the merrier, I say. If anyone feels they have something different to add other than Melonie's posts, please do! I think that avoiding the forums because of her popularity or reverence would be silly. I've learned a lot from other people here too! I think that differing opinions or advice can always be beneficial. Even if someone doesn't take that particular advice, they are better educated for having read it. Maybe it inspires people to look into it for themselves. I know that I have a lot more to learn and I'm certainly not in a place to offer real or complex suggestions about investing. I come here to enhance my knowledge. While it isn't all encompassing, it offers me a good deal of information.
    I think the DD is invaluable for industry-related questions, as well as others, because it all pertains to what we do. Some of us are independent contractors, some of us are employees. All of us want to be rich. We should be looking past our current "jobs" and looking into options for creating passive income and wealth. Answering questions that only pertain to dancing would be very limiting, IMO.

    I also want to ask, what does "tin foil hat" crowd mean?

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