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Thread: RE: strokes/ my dad, any knowledge

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    Veteran Member christian211's Avatar
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    Default RE: strokes/ my dad, any knowledge

    If this has to be moved to body biz, let it be.
    Last thursday, his b-day, my dad had a stroke. A moderate one they say. He's a little shakey and confused,but he can walk and talk, add/subtract,remember phone #'s/addresses, etc..



    They he was VERRRRRRY lucky. After a couple of ultrasounds, they found the blockage in his internal carotid artery and say that the surgery is highly risky in that spot. They say basically all they can do is give him Coumadin to thin his blood enough to pass through the blockage, but chances are pretty high that he'll prob have more strokes all of diff. severities as he ages. His artery is "80-90%" blocked is what they tell me.
    I've done some research and heard this Dr. Ogilvy @ Mass General is kickass @ neurosurgery. Pretty well versed @ the surgery my dad would require, in the top five surgeons in the country for that procedure- STA_MCA. ALLLL the local docs and surgeons are NOT referring him to Mass General or the Lahey clinic UNTIL anything further happens, i.e, another stroke.
    My parents basically only speak Portuguese, understand English moderately, but def not medical terminolligy. This is basically all on my shoulders. I have 2 bros. One is intelligent, the other a little weaker. The intelligent one is well versed in business and finance, whereas my focus was always premed classes, until I realized I didn't have the drive for it. So basically, I'm the # 1 go to guy, biz bro is second, and my other bro can't handle this stuff at all and he's smoking weed who knows where right now.

    My Q is, should we go to Dr. Ogilvy, get a 2nd opinion? I asked my dad and he said whatever I think is best I'm drowning under a tidal wave of pressure and responsibility at this point.

    Please, some words.....

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    Featured Member Hatshepsut's Avatar
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    Default Re: strokes/ my dad, any knowledge

    Just so you know, many hospitals have translation services available. It's part of the informed consent policy. Look into it so you don't have to be there 24/7.

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    Veteran Member christian211's Avatar
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    Default Re: strokes/ my dad, any knowledge

    Thanks, girl, for answering He has almost all Portuguese nurses, but he's still a little disoriented so it has to be repeated to him a bunch of times. The nurses will only tell him once or twice what the doc is saying and even then what he tells me is pretty distant than what the docs tell me in person. His mri on Fri showed that he had had a REAL stroke, he originally thought it was a sunstroke, and even w/ nurses translating for him to comprehend, he didn't know until I got there around 1.

    BTW, I know we haven't always agreed on some issues, but it means alot to me that you wrote in. I appreciate it more than you know...


    Thank you

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    Featured Member Hatshepsut's Avatar
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    Default Re: strokes/ my dad, any knowledge

    You're welcome. I'm in nursing school, and I help out people in these aspects all the time.

    I'm sorry that you're the one who's burdened with all this. Although you are indeed probably the most qualified to lead all this, don't feel like Atlas. Part of a good bedside manner is to explain things in layman terms. If the staff is worth anything, they'll be able to explain things in a way that your bro can explain.

    Good luck on his recovery. It won't be easy, and the brain damage will never be undone, but recovery and rehabilitation can be amazing as the person learns to work around the disability.

    I really don't know much about strokes yet, but a diagnostic test showing blockage is generally pretty conclusive. A second opinion would probably yield the same. If it was my dad, I wouldn't want to wait for a second stroke or further damage. Then again, my dad wouldn't want to live the rest of his life walking on eggshells with severe compromises. He'd want to take the risk of a better recovery. Ask your dad if either situation would be a risk he would be willing to take. If you feel comfortable pursuing this doc, go for it. It never hurts to ask. Make sure you ask how many times a year he does this procedure, with success rates. Good luck on scoring the services.

    Are you a firstborn child? You really sound like one.

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    God/dess jaizaine's Avatar
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    Default Re: strokes/ my dad, any knowledge

    No harm in getting a second opinion. U want him to receive the best possible treatment.

    I dont know a whole lot about strokes but leaving a blockage until another stroke happens seems like insanity to me.

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    Default Re: strokes/ my dad, any knowledge

    ^ I was going to say that same thing.

    Get a second opinion from an expert in the field.

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    Default Re: strokes/ my dad, any knowledge

    Hi Christian,

    You should definately get a second opinion. I went through precisely the same thing with my dad--overall, he had seven strokes, both minor and major, and I made sure to get him to the Massachusetts hospitals; Mass General is obviously excellent. If you are in the NY area I can recommend some excellent doctors there as well.

    I was in a similar caretaking position also--feeling that the universe was on my shoulders. My brother, a very strong guy, would come in a relieve me on nights when it got to be too much (he would drive three hours to us and then go back to his job and family--I worked near the hospital, so I spent the most time there, often overnight, then back to work, during the eight months of one part of dad's hospitalization). It sounds like your biz brother can help relieve you. You'll need this occasionally. But you will be surprised at the strength you find in yourself.

    With one initial stroke (a brain hemmorhage) that my father had, we were also given the advice to wait. I did not--I had him moved by ambulance to another, more advanced hospital. I'm glad I did. If you've found a doctor you're impressed with, get that second opinion.

    Many of the medical people are magnificent. Many are so insensitive it is stunning. I would view each day as going to war for my dad, and be grateful when I came across people who really cared and helped. I learned after a while that yelling in anger didn't do anything--far better to get as many in the medical community surrounding your dad on your side as you can, and then use those friendships when things get rough. In some hospitals you will find a clear chain of command, and you'll discover how to work within it. In others you'll feel like you're in a big goddamned political airport where no one wants to take responsibility. It can be frustrating and heartbreaking, but lean on your inner strength, and truly, take things day by day. You can get overwhelmed if you try to think about too much at once. Concentrate, now, on getting your dad that second opinion.

    Feel free to ask me anything you need.
    Last edited by jhuka; 07-04-2007 at 11:49 AM.
    JK Jim

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    Default Re: strokes/ my dad, any knowledge

    Wanted to also mention, in support of Hapshepsut's post, how much the therapy will help--it is amazing how much the therapists are able to restore voice and memory and other abilities after a stroke, truly. They see it every day, so even though this is new (and, I know, scares the hell out of you), you'll be surprised at how much can be done for stroke victims. Hang in there--one thing at a time.
    JK Jim

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    Default Re: strokes/ my dad, any knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusGoddess View Post
    ^ I was going to say that same thing.

    Get a second opinion from an expert in the field.
    I second this as well .

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    Featured Member Hatshepsut's Avatar
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    Default Re: strokes/ my dad, any knowledge

    I don't mean to sound cynical, but you may want to get your dad's wishes and other things in order. I'm not just talking about in case he dies, but also how radical/invasive/risky he wants measures to be taken, and if you want to to everything possible to save him or "let him go" if things get bad. I'm really sorry, but it's something that's all too often waited on until it's too late. You're not going to be able to ask him what he wants if he suffers a major stroke and can't communicate.

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    Default Re: strokes/ my dad, any knowledge

    Yep, all good advice. Best of luck & prayers to you & Dad.


    MANY MEN WANTED TO LAY ME DOWN, BUT FEW WANTED TO LIFT ME UP

    -Eartha Kitt

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    Veteran Member christian211's Avatar
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    Default Re: strokes/ my dad, any knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatshepsut View Post
    You're welcome. I'm in nursing school, and I help out people in these aspects all the time.

    I'm sorry that you're the one who's burdened with all this. Although you are indeed probably the most qualified to lead all this, don't feel like Atlas. Part of a good bedside manner is to explain things in layman terms. If the staff is worth anything, they'll be able to explain things in a way that your bro can explain.

    Good luck on his recovery. It won't be easy, and the brain damage will never be undone, but recovery and rehabilitation can be amazing as the person learns to work around the disability.

    I really don't know much about strokes yet, but a diagnostic test showing blockage is generally pretty conclusive. A second opinion would probably yield the same. If it was my dad, I wouldn't want to wait for a second stroke or further damage. Then again, my dad wouldn't want to live the rest of his life walking on eggshells with severe compromises. He'd want to take the risk of a better recovery. Ask your dad if either situation would be a risk he would be willing to take. If you feel comfortable pursuing this doc, go for it. It never hurts to ask. Make sure you ask how many times a year he does this procedure, with success rates. Good luck on scoring the services.

    Are you a firstborn child? You really sound like one.

    Sorry it took so long to respond.... I've been a little busy

    Most of his probs include coordination and multitasking. Also the switch over from English to Portuguese, written and spoken. The hosp. has a therapist lined up for Wed. so we'll see how that goes....
    I also think we shouldn't necessarily live w/ the what if factor and am pushing for getting this surgery done w/ one if not the best doc in the states. I just hate to think if anything major goes wrong that it will basically be on the shoulders of my brother and me. My mother is halfway content w/ a wait and see attitude b/c she fears the worst possible outcome of this surgery. Plus she has severe anxiety/ panic disorder and her getting sent to the psych ward is a real live possibility to us, so we are watching our words carefully around her. Although, I must say, she has shown enormous strength during this time of hardship, only being laid up in bed for two days and emotionally breaking down twice, w/ each time lasting about an hour. That's good for her

    I think what is getting MY anxiety/ panic disorder in full swing is the thought that I could actually kill my dad. Basically, my immediate and extended family are looking at me as to what to do next. I know I'm putting the cart before the horse, but I can't stop thinking about the very possible decision I might have to make in the very near future

    Oh, and btw, I am the first born. How'd you know?

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    Veteran Member christian211's Avatar
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    Default Re: strokes/ my dad, any knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by jaizaine View Post
    No harm in getting a second opinion. U want him to receive the best possible treatment.

    I dont know a whole lot about strokes but leaving a blockage until another stroke happens seems like insanity to me.

    ^^^ Jaizaine and Venus, thanks for the replies. My thoughts exactly until I started talking to my anti surgery relatives.... It made me doubt my first instinct and I don't like that. Thanks again!!

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    Veteran Member christian211's Avatar
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    Default Re: strokes/ my dad, any knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by jhuka View Post
    Hi Christian,

    You should definately get a second opinion. I went through precisely the same thing with my dad--overall, he had seven strokes, both minor and major, and I made sure to get him to the Massachusetts hospitals; Mass General is obviously excellent. If you are in the NY area I can recommend some excellent doctors there as well.

    I was in a similar caretaking position also--feeling that the universe was on my shoulders. My brother, a very strong guy, would come in a relieve me on nights when it got to be too much (he would drive three hours to us and then go back to his job and family--I worked near the hospital, so I spent the most time there, often overnight, then back to work, during the eight months of one part of dad's hospitalization). It sounds like your biz brother can help relieve you. You'll need this occasionally. But you will be surprised at the strength you find in yourself.

    With one initial stroke (a brain hemmorhage) that my father had, we were also given the advice to wait. I did not--I had him moved by ambulance to another, more advanced hospital. I'm glad I did. If you've found a doctor you're impressed with, get that second opinion.

    Many of the medical people are magnificent. Many are so insensitive it is stunning. I would view each day as going to war for my dad, and be grateful when I came across people who really cared and helped. I learned after a while that yelling in anger didn't do anything--far better to get as many in the medical community surrounding your dad on your side as you can, and then use those friendships when things get rough. In some hospitals you will find a clear chain of command, and you'll discover how to work within it. In others you'll feel like you're in a big goddamned political airport where no one wants to take responsibility. It can be frustrating and heartbreaking, but lean on your inner strength, and truly, take things day by day. You can get overwhelmed if you try to think about too much at once. Concentrate, now, on getting your dad that second opinion.

    Feel free to ask me anything you need.
    Thanks for the response. It really does feel like going to war for my dad. It's basically me, a 26 yo woman w/ near top rank ( 15th out of a class of 900) in high school and only 1.5 yrs of college under her belt, a mother of two who doesn't work most of the time, telling these supposed "excellent" neuro and vascular surgeons to go fuck themselves. I'm a little intimidated by all of this. Sometimes I think my time of intellectual know how may have passed and all the research I do is really for not. Who am I to question these dr's that HAVE finished all their schooling and requirements? I just hope I'm not being overly optimistic about the future w/out need be. I don't want to give anyone false hopes.
    Also, I am pretty impressed w/ my level of togetherness up until this point, considering I'm calming all family members down, taking care of all the bills for my parents' household, billing for his business, taking care of my kids, husband, and home, I'm really surprised I'm not in the loony bin yet, knock on wood I have panic/anxiety disorder, although nowhere near my mom's level.

    I'm sorry you had/ have to go through the same thing. <<<Huggs>>>

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    Veteran Member christian211's Avatar
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    Default Re: strokes/ my dad, any knowledge

    Thanks Whirlerz and Curiousj for your responses.

    Hatshepsut, I know we have to take care of his wishes asap, but it's killing me to even move in that direction.
    Funny you bring that up, b/c about a month ago, my aunt brought up drawing wills at a family gathering (one of my great aunts had just passed), and my father stated that he wouldn't b/c it was bad luck, kinda tempting something to happen. A little creepy... Anyways, I know he would be willing at this point, but his mind isn't right enough for that right now. He'd prob give his fortune to the 8 yo Dominican girl he sponsors through Food For The Poor so I don't want to even attempt that at this point, lol

    I suppose he's okay, for the time being. I brought him home Fri, remember him telling me, "I don't think I could drive on the highway", and the next day him taking it upon himself to drive to a job site. Dr's and nurses specifically TOLD him not to drive just yet!!!! When I confronted him later on, he just said, " the highway was a little much for me. I'll stick to the city and back roads." He's gonna drive me crazy

    Eh, sorry I went off on a tangent, but thanks for listening either way.

    Thanks for all the responses, peeps. I appreciate it. I'll update when need be.

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    Default Re: strokes/ my dad, any knowledge

    Hi Christian,

    I know what you mean about the driving, and how that will about to make you loony. I went through the same thing with my dad, who was an extremely competent guy, to the point where even with lost vision he believed he could still keep driving. I asked the question of whether he could drive of one of his doctors, an eye specialist, when the three of us were in the room together: he told my dad, sadly, not to drive because of the danger to himself and others. My father respected that, because he liked the doctor--though much later he tried to drive again on the highway, like your dad. Then he never did it again--I think he realized that part of his life was over and that to push it was dangerous. I understood that what I was witnessing was a long process of letting go of independence, and I realized how hard it would be for me, too. Most of the frustration I experienced was due to this--my father's mind, at one point, was completely blown with the strokes and still, in the hospital, he insisted on getting up in the middle of the night to get to the bathroom, even though he was going through amputations of parts of his feet due to diabetes. I was able to minimalize the damage he was doing to himself, but not do away with it altogether. I had to calm myself by remembering that what I was fighting was his need to be free--we all have it. I think your dad wanted some return to normalcy, so he drove.

    I understand, too, about questioning the doctors. I would rely on one or two doctors you trust, and who are easy to approach, and let them help guide you through the river of decisions. Think of it that way--as a river with rocks, and that you'll be able to avoid some of them. There are some things you'll have to confront. At one point, my father was stuck in an acute care facility where he was not being taken care of properly. I demanded his release, and the doctors there said only against medical advice--meaning that we would lose insurance coverage for nurse's care at home if I took him out. They do this to keep the income coming in: truly an immoral thing. It took me three damned days to get him out of there--I got another doctor to sign him out--a time when I had very little sleep because I was watching over him like a hawk.

    But there are great people in this, too, and you will find them. Lean on them, and make the best decisions you can. Just go from bend to bend in the river, an issue at a time. I hope that in the case of your father, with good therapy (and there are great therapists out there) he will largely recover, and you will have him for a long time. I'll bet you will.

    I handled my father's wishes with humor--we joked about it as we made out the sheets--maybe that is the best approach here. It got the job done, but also got his wishes down on paper.

    Hang in there, Christian. I'll check this thread more frequently than I have, just in case you need anything.
    JK Jim

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