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Thread: Did anyone read this TIME article?

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    Default Did anyone read this TIME article?

    This happened where I work and in the town I live in.



    http://www.time.com/time/nation/arti...0168-1,00.html


    Comments?
    "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

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    Default Re: Did anyone read this TIME article?

    "[White people] think we have it easy, that we don't pay taxes," says Fernanda, 19, whose parents were deported in the April raid. "They don't know how hard it is to get ahead here."

    Are you kidding me? Get ahead? Welcome to life Fernanda your welcome for everything our government has allowed you to have. If your not happy with it you could always go back to Mexico!
    "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did anyone read this TIME article?

    The article came before the big amnesty debate.

    The road took a turn when the amnesty bill was shot down not once - but twice in a row. Obviously the VOTING population has a different idea about what should be happening.

    Now the grassroots are aiming to at least see criminal illegal aliens deported after serving time instead of being released into the streets to sow more mayhem:

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    Default Re: Did anyone read this TIME article?

    this issue has a very simple three step solution ...

    #1 allow the confidential sharing of Social Security records with employers so they can immediately determine whether or not a particular job applicant is entitled to legally work in the USA or not. Enforce existing laws that will hang an employer out to dry for willfully hiring known illegal aliens

    #2 make the recent ballot initiatives of various states into a federal policy ... illegal aliens are NOT eligible to receive social welfare benefits of ANY kind, social services of any kind, nor are their children eligible for 'free' US public education (you could charge them tuition though !).

    #3 press DHS to follow existing law and deport all illegal aliens who wind up rubbing elbows with US law enforcement. Deputize state and local cops and empower state and local courts to charge illegal aliens with being in this country illegally on behalf of DHS and to hold them on immigration charges until they can be transferred to DHS for a one way trip home.

    If the above three things were done, three things which US law essentially requires right now in one form or another, we would not have a future illegal immigration problem.

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    Default Re: Did anyone read this TIME article?

    The most important thing we have to do is start fining the employers. $10,000 per alien per violation sounds good to me; if they raid a slaughterhouse and it costs Con-Agra half a million dollars every time, it might start to look more profitable to pay American citizens the minimum wage. If the labor market for illegal slave labor dries up, most of the illegals will go home on their own. No need to deport them.

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    Default Re: Did anyone read this TIME article?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol View Post
    The article came before the big amnesty debate.
    What do you mean? They were just in my town a month or two ago asking questions about it. They wanted to come to the plant but they would not let them in.
    "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

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    Default Re: Did anyone read this TIME article?

    Quote Originally Posted by big_daddy View Post
    What do you mean? They were just in my town a month or two ago asking questions about it. They wanted to come to the plant but they would not let them in.
    I thought this was another Time article I read a month before the debate.

    It was just as pandering as the one you posted. Obviously we know their agenda.

    This sort of thing is going to be a continuous fight because basically, it has gone on for so long it is for all purposes de facto for our country already.

    It is going to take a lot of effort to clean up the mess and some hard decisions are to be done.

    But I don't have any sympathy for the whole "tearing families apart." They can take their young ones back to their originating countries and if they didn't want to break up the family they shouldn't have fucking broken the law. What are we to do - ignore a low level drug dealer/petty criminal because going to jail will break up the family?

    I know people who spent tens of thousands of dollars on their green cards from lawyers to fees to moving expenses to learning the language to building a skill - and then "The Race" (La Raza) says illegals should simply put down $5,000
    to refuse English and slurp down that education and health care at my expense -- YEA MY EXPENSE! Cuz I pay taxes and that shit creeps up to 40% of my income when it is all said and done.

    And this bullshit about "stealing what once was Mexico's" - sorry but before the land was US it was it's own separate country called Texas. The Alamo was filled with Mexicans revolting against Santa Anna with maybe 22 US Tennesseans. The armies roving the battlefields in San Jacinto, etc. -- Mexican citizens fighting the Mexican army!!!

    It makes me so mad to hear these ignorant fucks with maybe a fourth to tenth grade education (from Mexico) spout off about shit that isn't even true.

    And then the elite of that country has the balls to go on about how unfriendly we are to the north while they unload their poor and uneducated on our doorstep?

    Hello! We are fast becoming the largest debtor nation in the entire fucking world!

    Ya, there is going to be some bad feelings going around.

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    Default Re: Did anyone read this TIME article?

    But I don't have any sympathy for the whole "tearing families apart." They can take their young ones back to their originating countries and if they didn't want to break up the family they shouldn't have fucking broken the law. What are we to do - ignore a low level drug dealer/petty criminal because going to jail will break up the family?
    no, what we already do is put the family up in gov't subsidized public housing served by gov't subsidized utilities, cut them checks every month for AFDC / TANS etc., sign them up for free MedicAid, and let them go visit their jailed family member every day until his sentence is served - without requiring that they actually get a JOB that might cut into their visitation time !

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    Default Re: Did anyone read this TIME article?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol View Post
    The article came before the big amnesty debate...
    I heard this Congressional Rep interviewed on the radio a couple days ago re: Del Rio, Texas,

    http://www.culberson.house.gov/news.aspx?A=322

    I am perplexed, though, as to why a local chapter of the ACLU hasn't filed a lawsuit about these arrests/dpeportations yet.

    Personally, my primary objection to the immigration problem, as it currently exists, is that it is yet another form of corporate welfare. I.e., if the employees were not subsidized under various programs, the corporate world wouldn't be able to "grow" earnings/dividends by paying less than market rates for labor.

    Therefore, if those Congressional Reps & Senators who support amnesty are willing to abolish, on a permanent basis, taxation of personal income, I would be willing to accept complietely open borders. Even though that creates another problem re: homeland security.

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    Default Re: Did anyone read this TIME article?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhaedrusZ View Post
    Therefore, if those Congressional Reps & Senators who support amnesty are willing to abolish, on a permanent basis, taxation of personal income, I would be willing to accept complietely open borders. Even though that creates another problem re: homeland security.

    And wage pressures. Ask anyone who use to make a living in construction and meat processing.

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    Default Re: Did anyone read this TIME article?

    Personally, my primary objection to the immigration problem, as it currently exists, is that it is yet another form of corporate welfare. I.e., if the employees were not subsidized under various programs, the corporate world wouldn't be able to "grow" earnings/dividends by paying less than market rates for labor.
    True on the face of it. However, the corporate world would still be able to 'grow'
    earnings/ dividends for anything that can be outsourced. Thus clamping down on meat packers employing illegal aliens at US facilities would probably result in relocation of those facilities just across the Mexican border, since it is less expensive to pay Mexican wages and ship beef via Mexican trucks than it is to pay US minimum wage with mandatory comp / unemployment insurance etc and not ship beef. Of course this also brings into play food safety issues, but hey we're not doing much of anything about food imported from Asia as it is. I'll leave it to someone else to do the total cost comparison of the closing of US meatpacking plants re loss of fed / state / local tax revenues, cost of permanent unemployment of legal workers as well as illegal workers etc.

    As to industries that are not readily outsourceable i.e. construction, retail etc., time for them to 'suck it up' ... and pass their higher costs of paying US minimum wage plus mandatory comp / unemployment along to the US customer in the form of higher prices.

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    Default Re: Did anyone read this TIME article?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    As to industries that are not readily outsourceable i.e. construction, retail etc., time for them to 'suck it up' ... and pass their higher costs of paying US minimum wage plus mandatory comp / unemployment along to the US customer in the form of higher prices.
    What makes you think we aren't outsourcing home construction?

    There are a lot more higher prices out there - and it ain't cuz of wage stagnation.

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    Default Re: Did anyone read this TIME article?

    I said construction ... thinking of aspects like forming and pouring cement, laying bricks and blocks, bolting and welding steel beams together. Granted that quite a few construction elements are now being imported as pre-fabbed assemblies (i.e. roof trusses, windows and doors, even entire kit houses) to cash in on cheaper offshore labor ... which I assume is in tune with your comment. Also, components such as pipe, wire, plywood, and a long list of other stuff is now imported from low labor cost countries.

    There are a lot more higher prices out there - and it ain't cuz of wage stagnation.
    Granted that there are umpteen reasons for rising prices lately, which stem the gamut from a falling US$ exchange rate to higher 'stealth' taxes to rising costs of basic commodities. But of greatest relevance to this thread at least is the possible clampdown on US employers who currently hire sub-minimum wage illegal alien labor, versus those US employers being forced to pay the minimum wage plus mandated benefit costs by hiring legal workers.

    As was pretty well proven to be true in the restaurant industry and other businesses employing unskilled labor vis a vis a number of states increasing their minimum wage, businesses cannot and will not shoulder the burden of rising labor costs out of their own profit margins. Instead they shoulder it by a combination of retail price increases and workload increases on their unskilled laborers (i.e. permanently laying off a certain percentage of unskilled workers and expecting the remaining unskilled workers to pick up the slack).

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    Default Re: Did anyone read this TIME article?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    I said construction ... thinking of aspects like forming and pouring cement, laying bricks and blocks, bolting and welding steel beams together. Granted that quite a few construction elements are now being imported as pre-fabbed assemblies (i.e. roof trusses, windows and doors, even entire kit houses) to cash in on cheaper offshore labor ... which I assume is in tune with your comment. Also, components such as pipe, wire, plywood, and a long list of other stuff is now imported from low labor cost countries.
    And meant as in terms that not only are items imported, the work is being done by non-americans too - take for example the "mexification" of New Orleans.

    Granted that there are umpteen reasons for rising prices lately, which stem the gamut from a falling US$ exchange rate to higher 'stealth' taxes to rising costs of basic commodities. But of greatest relevance to this thread at least is the possible clampdown on US employers who currently hire sub-minimum wage illegal alien labor, versus those US employers being forced to pay the minimum wage plus mandated benefit costs by hiring legal workers.

    As was pretty well proven to be true in the restaurant industry and other businesses employing unskilled labor vis a vis a number of states increasing their minimum wage, businesses cannot and will not shoulder the burden of rising labor costs out of their own profit margins. Instead they shoulder it by a combination of retail price increases and workload increases on their unskilled laborers (i.e. permanently laying off a certain percentage of unskilled workers and expecting the remaining unskilled workers to pick up the slack).
    I think the "tax margin" should be looked at, but I know we probably agree there!

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    Default Re: Did anyone read this TIME article?

    ^^^ ahh, 'Mexification' ....

    (snip)"Reality, of course, is that Mexico is the way it is because Mexico's ruling elite wants it that way. This allows Mexico's ruling elite to live in luxury with plenty of servants, while the remainder of Mexico festers in poverty and filth. And Mexico, not Brazil or Columbia, is the model that our own ruling elite is using, because Mexico is what they are most familiar with. It is a rite of passage, amongst the children of our ruling elite, to go on week-long binges in Mexico where they drink under-aged, imbibe drugs illegal here in the U.S. to the point of being higher than Keith Richards, and mistreat the poorly-paid waiters, drivers, and servants who have no choice but to endure the treatment or else starve to death, waiters drivers and servants who leave their jobs at the end of the day and go home to tin-shack hovels with no running water or electricity. The future of the United States, to these now-grown-up children of our ruling elite, looks a lot like Acapulco -- a fabulous resort for the rich and worthy, grinding poverty for the servant class which keeps it running.

    Consider, for a minute, illegal Mexican immigration. Pat Buchanon and the "Minutemen" are right -- sort of. This really IS part of a plan to make the United States into Mexico North. But it is not a plan by the Mexicans themselves. They just want food and shelter and jobs, they have no plan other than survival. Rather, it is part of a plan by our ruling elite to destroy our own working and middle class and thus create a plentiful supply of servants like they feel is their due. Consider the fact that, on any construction site in the Southwest, the only non-Mexican faces you're likely to see are the foremen (easily recognizable because they have the white hats with the brims that go all around, while the workers have dark skin and have the white hats with the brim that is only on the front). Once upon a time, construction jobs were the way that the working poor used to work themselves out of poverty. But with the illegal Mexicans driving down wages by being willing to work for $50 per day as "day laborers", they can no longer do that.

    So who benefits from this? Why, it is the ruling elite, the rich white men (and a few women) who control the majority of wealth in America. Why else do you think their government (government of the people, by the elite, for the elite) insures that the Mexicans stay illegal, but that the contractor's sites are never raided by immigration officials? Why else do you think that "our" government has no system for verifying work credentials in real time, thus allowing illegal immigrants to present false work documents and be employed immediately? Why are the "illegals" kept illegal, so that they cannot complain of poor working conditions without being deported? This is all part of the plan to drive down wages, destroy our working class and keep them permenantly in a position of servitude to their "betters". "(snip)

    from


    of course my own plan of opening up the SSI database for 'instant' employer verification of legal worker status, plus heavy fines for US employers who then knowingly hire / continue to employ illegal alien workers, would be contrary to certain people's grand plan of 'Mexification'. Is this why certain US politicians are pushing so hard for amnesty plus keeping the SSI database 'sealed', to perpetuate and expand the 'rich and poor with nothing in between' class division which is already rapidly growing in the USA ???

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    Default Re: Did anyone read this TIME article?

    Thanks for the clarification

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