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Thread: Is this where America is headed in regard to taxes ?

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Is this where America is headed in regard to taxes ?

    (snip)" Irritation grows over taxes

    Norwegians have long accepted high taxes to finance their social welfare state, but a new survey indicates rising dissatisfaction and, in some cases, outright hatred of some taxes that are viewed as way too high and unfair.

    Norwegians are among the most heavily taxed people in the world, and that in turn has made Norway one of the most expensive countries in which to live. Most accept the taxes they're ordered to pay on income and even net worth and property, but growing numbers are publicly complaining about sky-high taxes on everything from cars to fuel to consumer goods.

    Norwegians differentiate between skatter (taxes) and avgifter (duties, fees or user taxes) and the latter is the most hated. They're what causes a glass of house wine at an Oslo restaurant to cost the equivalent of nearly USD $16, or a gallon of gas to cost nearly USD $9 at current exchange rates."(snip)

    (snip)"Regressive inequality
    The study also showed that 67 percent of the population think Norway's inheritance taxes are too high, while 63 percent think fuel taxes are too high. Norway's hefty 25 percent VAT (like a sales tax) on nearly all consumer items is considered too high by 53 percent of the population.

    Only 32 percent, meanwhile, believed tobacco taxes are too high, while 44 percent believed liquor taxes are too high."(snip)

    Also the Heritage Foundation points out that, in addition to the 25% 'sales tax' and the various 'excise taxes' on gasoline, alcohol, etc., the Norwegian gov't also collects hefty income taxes and corporate taxes ... (snip)"Norway has a high income tax rate and a moderate corporate tax rate. The top income tax rate is 47.8 percent, and the top corporate tax rate is 28 percent. "(snip)

    and from the Swedish press at ... (snip)"The average Swedish worker pays around 60 percent of his or her earnings in visible or hidden taxes. This situation is in the long run problematic, since high taxes combined with generous welfare systems undermine social norms associated with hard work and responsibility."(snip)


    It would appear that providing generous social welfare benefits, cradle to grave 'free' health care etc. DO have a cost ! However, many of the programs which contribute to the swedish social welfare system, and as a result the 60% average tax rate, are now being discussed in Washington DC !

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    Default Re: Is this where America is headed in regard to taxes ?

    Given our current national debt is $8,893,950,105,363.96 () I think the short answer is YES but we won't be seeing any of the benefits.

    (For a population of 300,000,000 it comes to 29,646.50 per person - but we all know the entire population is not qualified to pay taxes.)

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    Default Re: Is this where America is headed in regard to taxes ?

    ^^^ In point of fact over 84% of all income taxes are paid by the 'top 25%' of US taxpayers ... which roughly corresponds to a pre-tax income level of $66,000 per year. Also in point of fact less than 5% of all income taxes are paid by the 'bottom 50%' of US taxpayers ... which roughly corresponds to a pre-tax income level of $31,000 per year (based on most recent figures per ).

    Thus any new social welfare programs, national health programs etc. BY DEFINITION will not be paid for from the taxes of 50% of Americans who receive such benefits. They will be paid for primarily by raising the taxes on the other 50% of Americans who actually pay a significant amount of income taxes ! And not only will the top 25% of American taxpayers (which includes most dancers) wind up footing their own portion of the benefits cost for any new social welfare programs or national health programs, but they will also wind up being forced to pick up the tab for providing those benefits to the bottom 50% of Americans !

    This will create exactly the sort of 'moral hazard' which the Swedish article discusses in my first post ... "since high taxes combined with generous welfare systems undermine social norms associated with hard work and responsibility".

    Translation ... if a person can work at a zero pressure job, essentially avoid paying income taxes, and be eligible for free health care benefits plus a cornucopia of social welfare benefits, why on earth would they want to bust their ass and work twice as hard to earn twice as much only to see one half of their extra earnings taxed away from them, leaving them with a standard of living that is only marginally better than the person who doesn't choose to bust their ass.

    Of course the reason I was prompted to post this tread is today's proposals re the SCHIP bill ...



    (snip)"Left as is, SCHIP would cost about $25 billion over five years. The cost to taxpayers for the Clinton-Dingell version would be about $85 billion over five years. This past week, the Senate has tried to appear more "reasonable." In the Senate Finance Committee, Senators Max Baucus (D-Montana) and Jay Rockefeller (D-WV) crafted an SCHIP bill that would spend "only" $60 billion. It would also only fully match states' SCHIP spending to cover children in families with income up to 300% of the poverty line. States will receive only partial funds if they decide to enroll children in families above 300% of poverty. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that strategy. The Democrats can reasonably assume some states will enroll children who are above 300% of poverty, thereby creating a new constituency for more government-funded health insurance. Five years from now you can bet that constituency will be pushing Congress to fully fund children in SCHIP who are above 300% of poverty.

    However, Baucus and Rockefeller have had some help from the other side of the aisle. Republican Senators Chuck Grassley (IA) and Orrin Hatch (UT) have worked to craft this "compromise." Again they have forgotten that the GOP is supposed to be the party of Reagan, not the party of "let's spend, but just a little less than the Democrats want."

    Recruiting new recipients isn't the only way SCHIP will move us closer to a government-run system. It will also make private insurance more expensive. The program at best puts modest demand restraints on recipients. With little to restrain their demand, families on SCHIP will increase their use of health care. This will increase the cost of health care which in turn will increase the cost of private insurance. As the cost of health insurance goes up, so will the number of employers dropping their insurance and the number of uninsured. Although, to our knowledge, no academic study has focused on the cost-effects of SCHIP, a recent paper (PDF) has found that the introduction of Medicare had profound effects on the cost of health care. There is little reason to think that SCHIP hasn't had a similar, if less profound, effect."(snip)

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