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Thread: I want to give the money back

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    Featured Member xoxoGracexoxo's Avatar
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    Default I want to give the money back

    Hi, Stripperwebbers. Last night was my first night back at work since I had surgery in June. I made over a grand and I feel just awful about it. This is why:

    I had a wonderful customer last winter and spring -- very respectful, fun to hang out with, and spent very good money on me. It was great. After several months he decided he wanted to stop strip-clubbing, and while that was a loss of income, I understood the reasons and we stayed in occasional touch by e-mail.

    When I needed a website designed for my dayjob project, I got in touch and asked him if he could recommend anyone, since this is kinda his field. He recommended himself. I had some hesitation -- mainly about having a customer know my real name and other job -- but decided that I really do trust this guy a lot, so I agreed to work with him. He's been awesome -- very professional, put way more work into the site than I asked him to, and is charging me a very friendly price. So far so good.

    Since we're in touch, he knew about my abdominal surgery in June and that I wouldn't be dancing for a while. Last week I got an email from him (to my stripper email, although he knows my "real" one) asking if I would be going back to work soon and if he could come and see me. I had even more hesitations this time, but in the end I couldn't turn down the prospect of big money. My dayjob is a labor of love and doesn't pay well at all and my boyfriend can only work part-time while he's in school. After six weeks of me not dancing, we were running out of savings.

    Long story short, I went in to work and ended up spending most of the night with him in VIP. As always, he was fun, respectful, and incredibly generous. At the club I felt OK and it was really easy to slip back into stripper mode. When I got home, though, I started feeling terrible.

    I feel unprofessional for letting someone who's now part of my "real" life see me as a dancer. I also feel like I'm taking advantage of someone...I know that this customer likes me a lot, probably more than he should. On some level, he must know that he's paying me to provide a service, but I think he also hopes we'll be together someday or something like that.

    I kind of feel like telling him I can't dance for him anymore and just giving the money back. On the other hand, he's handsdown my best customer...and I could really use the phat roll of bills sitting in my purse right now.

    I'm confused.

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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    Hey, you made a mistake because you're in a pinch -- it happens. I don't see what's confusing about the situation -- financial duress colored your decision-making process and now you've made a decision you regret. All there is to do now is move on. And be grateful that this guy is seemingly not stalker material now that he knows your real info.

    Quote Originally Posted by xoxoGracexoxo View Post
    I kind of feel like telling him I can't dance for him anymore and just giving the money back. On the other hand, he's hands down my best customer...and I could really use the phat roll of bills sitting in my purse right now.
    Well, you can't give the money back, because that would freak him out and probably make him think he offended you. Or that you secretly love him. But you also can't let him continue to be a customer, not if you have an ongoing business relationship outside the club.

    But you know all of this already. You're just feeling bad because your personal boundaries have been trampled on, by you -- and you're not the first. It's OK, the bad feeling will go away, and hopefully the customer will be replaced by others.

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    Veteran Member Alia_of_the_Knife's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    I don't think you are taking advantage of him at all. You can have a good and cordial relationship with a dentist, doctor, landscaper, mechanic, or hair dresser, but when it comes down to it they are providing a service that you are financially compensating them for.

    You say that he has been very professional about things the whole time. Does he know that you have a boyfriend? Has he given any indication that he wants things to be anything "more" than what they are? If not, just roll with the punches. If he is getting out of hand and there is something you haven't told us, then maybe he isn't the best regular to keep

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    Featured Member xoxoGracexoxo's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    Quote Originally Posted by Susan Wayward View Post
    But you know all of this already. You're just feeling bad because your personal boundaries have been trampled on, by you.
    Yup. I feel like I've compromised myself. I'm bummed. I thought my ethics were stronger. But yeah, I'll get over the sting to my pride.

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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    Your ethics are strong! That's why you're upset. Someone who took advantage of people wouldn't think twice.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    I understand caving a little when under pressure. By all means - tell him that you don't really want to see him as a dancer anymore, since he is now a colleague. But don't give the money back. Look at it this way - this guy obviously has some intuition of keeping the relationships separate - which is why he intuitively uses your dancer email to contact you as a dancer. He will likely understand that while he was a great customer, you feel a little uncomfortable with it.

    Like I said - you caved a little. It was a mistake - it doesn't have to define your life and your boundaries henceforth. Just chalk it up to a learning experience and move forward.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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    Featured Member xoxoGracexoxo's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    Yeah, I was also impressed that he used my dancer-mail to solicit my dancing services. It would have been weird and uncomfortable to get a solicitation through my normal person mail.

    He asked me out once when he was first coming to see me, and I told him I had a really hard rule about not seeing people OTC. He's respected that ever since. He also told me that he sees my normal persona and my stripper persona as two different people. This sounds great in theory, but I'm not sure a compartmentalization that thorough is really possible.

    (And by the way, it's not like he's my employee or anything in my real life. He's working on a contract basis; I owe him one more payment, on completion of the project, and then we're through.)

    So much negotiation of boundaries in this professional. Sometimes you fuck up.

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    Featured Member xoxoGracexoxo's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    Quote Originally Posted by Susan Wayward View Post
    Well, you can't give the money back, because that would freak him out and probably make him think he offended you. Or that you secretly love him.
    Whoa...really? I hadn't thought about this.

  9. #9
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    You worked for the money and it's yours. There's no reason you should give it back. But if you're not comfortable with it, you don't have to take anymore from him. I violated my own boundaries with a dungeon customer once and it got really weird; I too was fortunate he wasn't a creepy stalker or anything. We live and we learn.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    Call me crazy but I don't see the problem with taking his money. He was a customer before; he's a customer now. You're a website customer of his. You are NOT colleagues, just friendly customers of each other. Many people in other professions exchange services this way all the time. What's wrong with us doing it too? Like we always say, it's just business - a job.

    I know, stripping is "different". However, it's still business and there's obviously no confusion in HIS mind about what's going on in the relationship.

    Don't give the money back!! You earned it. If you're really uncomfortable dancing for him, then tell him, but be sure to tell him the reason so he doesn't think it's a crush.

    You'll get over this

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Featured Member xoxoGracexoxo's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    Hmmm. ^^Yeah, maybe he *is* able to compartmentalize everything in his head. I guess I could be over-reacting. Or giving myself too much credit -- like, of course I'm so awesome and irresistable that he can't handle having a stripper/customer relationship with me without wanting more...like all of us, I'm just so used to the guys who are always always always pushing for more. I don't even like dealing with it in a strip-club, where I expect it -- let alone having anything bleed over into my "normal" life. So I'm fearful.

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    God/dess Dottie Rebel's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette View Post
    Call me crazy but I don't see the problem with taking his money. He was a customer before; he's a customer now. You're a website customer of his. You are NOT colleagues, just friendly customers of each other. Many people in other professions exchange services this way all the time. What's wrong with us doing it too? Like we always say, it's just business - a job.

    I know, stripping is "different". However, it's still business and there's obviously no confusion in HIS mind about what's going on in the relationship.

    Don't give the money back!! You earned it. If you're really uncomfortable dancing for him, then tell him, but be sure to tell him the reason so he doesn't think it's a crush.

    You'll get over this

    I agree with this 100%. I wouldn't personally have considered this a breach of ethics. I have had a customer for well over a year who became a somewhat business associate (invested a chunk of money into my company in a formal, above-board manner) and still occassionally comes into the club. He understands that I'm "stripper-me" at the club and I make him feel like he's in on a little secret. He loves being about to see both sides of me, but at the same time understands perfectly the boundaries of our relationship. After a year the money hasn't stopped, the business hasn't gotten weird, and no boundaries crossed.

    YMMV, but that's my experience. I don't see what you did wrong.

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    God/dess Bridgette's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    I can understand being apprehensive. Most of us want to keep stripper life and "real" life separate. In general it's the smart thing to do. I totally understand that. But at the end of the day, we're human and it's impossible to keep the two 100% separate all the time. Sometimes, in the right conditions, it can be very beneficial to allow a slight bit of overlap. To me, this seems like one of those times.


    To add, I'm sure you realize this guy is giving you a special deal on the website job because he knows you from stripping and likes you. (He pays you well ITC because he likes you.) To me, there's really no difference between taking the great deal he offered for his services, and giving him more of your great services if he wants to pay for them.
    Last edited by Bridgette; 08-12-2007 at 02:10 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by pheno View Post
    When you lead a nontraditional life don't try to measure it with traditional milestones.

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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    I'd feel the same way.This is the hardest part of the job for me. Sometimes it's easy to be detached and just look at everything like a business transaction, and then other times well, you know where I'm going....... In the end I have to rationalize everything someway so I don't feel guilty.
    The rules in our "real" lives are so different it's hard to adjust them in the club when we haven't been there for a while. You did NOTHING wrong though, and there is no reason to give the money back or feel bad. He wanted to spend the money on you because you ARE so damn irresistible and hot. I think the bottom line is you don't feel like you deserve it. Why not? You offered a service and should be paid for it. That's the bottom line. Remember, part of your job in the club is to create the fantasy, so don't feel bad when you get home for being so damn good at it. I'd pay you too : )

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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    Oh yea, now go throw the money all over your bed and roll in it. It always makes me feel better.

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    God/dess velvet's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgette View Post
    Call me crazy but I don't see the problem with taking his money. He was a customer before; he's a customer now. You're a website customer of his. You are NOT colleagues, just friendly customers of each other. Many people in other professions exchange services this way all the time. What's wrong with us doing it too? Like we always say, it's just business - a job.

    I know, stripping is "different". However, it's still business and there's obviously no confusion in HIS mind about what's going on in the relationship.

    Don't give the money back!! You earned it. If you're really uncomfortable dancing for him, then tell him, but be sure to tell him the reason so he doesn't think it's a crush.

    You'll get over this

    i agree with this as well. as i was reading the thread i was thinking why is this a problem untill i got to B's post.

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    God/dess Lena's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    Yeah, it sounds like he can compartmentalize you...



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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    So are you dancing again or was this just a once off to dance for him?

    I dont see a problem with what you did at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Corgan View Post
    when regulars turn cheap, it's time to kill em off.
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    You're still a vagina.
    There are many stereotypes about the industry that I work in. Sometimes they can be true but human beings are very diverse creatures and cannot be pigeon-holed into one category.

    Some of the most effortlessly beautiful, kind, intelligent, successful, motivated, driven and ridiculously hilarious women that I have ever met have been dancers. I've met the best friends that I've ever had in this industry.

  19. #19
    cameron_keys
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    I dont see this as a problem. He obviously knows the boundries and can separate "real" you from "stripper" you...and really, thats the main problem. THe reason most of us keep our two lives separate is because the customers woudl cross the line...not us. As long as he doesnt get stalker or creepy on you(and it sounds like he wont), I dont see a problem. If he was doing a website for a baker and bought a cake from them as well...it wouldnt be crossing any lines. As lomg as HE knows that both are business transactions..I would keep doing it.

    But obviously if YOU are uncomfortable then stop. Explain to him exactly what you told us..that since you are working together in "real" life...dancing for him seems wierd to you now.

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    Member mice's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    Never give the money back.

    Maybe just throw him a freebee dance or something.

    I think you got a great regular customer.

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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    Grace, I have to say, I agree with Bridgette and Dottie. I don't think you did anything wrong. I don't think he did anything wrong, either. As you said, he's not an employee or even really a co-worker. Quit beating yourself up and enjoy his coolness and generosity as a business associate, customer, and (dare I say) friend. He sounds like a very decent guy.

    Of course, if you're just too uncomfortable with the situation, for your own reasons (which I would completely understand), then I suppose you will have to cut him off as a customer. But it would seem sort a shame...
    "Doc still loved true things, but he knew it was not a general love and it could be a very dangerous mistress." - John Steinbeck, Cannery Row


    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    God/dess Silverback's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    Quote Originally Posted by xoxoGracexoxo View Post
    I kind of feel like telling him I can't dance for him anymore and just giving the money back. On the other hand, he's handsdown my best customer...and I could really use the phat roll of bills sitting in my purse right now.

    I'm confused.
    First of all, no mistake. People can interact like people even if they meet in a stripclub.

    Second, don't forget the first rule of aquisition:

    Once you have their money, you never give it back.
    http://www.dmwright.com/html/ferengi.htm

    I know I've posted this before, but one can never spend too much time studying the rules of aquisition.
    "He will come in one of the pre-chosen forms. During the rectification of the Vuldrini, the traveler came as a large and moving Torg! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Slor! Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!"

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    Veteran Member Kitsune83's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    seeing as you have an outside business relationship......maybe just talk to him? He could just be a great customer that likes seeing you nekkid......so let him know about your concerns...(maybe sugar-coating it a touch) that you're worried about personal-professional lines being blurred and blah blah....that way you can get it all out there....and hey, he might *still* be a great customer.....or....he might need to bail, but in either case, guilt is gone!
    PS: Don't give the money back, he paid you because he wanted to (because you're gorgeous and charming, and you F-ing earned it!)

  24. #24
    Featured Member xoxoGracexoxo's Avatar
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    OK, I'm not giving the money back. I think that would only blur the lines further at this point.

    On consideration, I think this customer is the rare, mature individual who can handle the complexities of the relationship, at least for now. I always underestimate him cause most customer are just such shits.

    I guess my discomfort had to do with someone who knows the "real" me seeing me in stripper-mode. I really compartmentalize those two parts of my life, so that in my mind somehow "I" am not the one manipulating people into paying me to see my body -- "Grace" does that. I get to leave "Grace" at the club every night and go home and be a normal person.

    I guess that's kinda silly. I never really realized that it was like this in my head, but it is. I guess there are some parts of the job that I'd rather disown and not associate with myself. Not the getting naked part, as per se, but the emotional manipulations that go into the hustle.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: I want to give the money back

    Hi there.

    Tho rare, it seems there are men out there like this. I'm new, and I'm not sure if my two cents are helpful at all, but I wanted to give another point of view on this. It sounds odd, but you might have helped out the guy. An ex of mine goes through phases (over the last 10+ years) of spending a good portion of his life at stripclubs and bikini bars. He's a great guy, very mature in many ways. Due to various reasons, his skills with women are... unique to say the least. He gets a lot of confidence (partially false, sure) from the ladies at the clubs. I'll try to cut this short - basically, he likes feeling like he can interact with women, some of the dancers provide this, and he likes to give back. Usually this is in your standard tip form. Some of the girls he's known for years and has befriended to an extent - he's helped out more. If he feels like he's being conned or taken advantage of, he backs off. But when he helps out someone who truly needs it he gets that good feeling that any of us get when helping others. He's just not good at helping others as much outside the clubs.

    Point is, maybe you helped him, too. Doesn't mean he's neccessarily a stalker or in love with you. I'm not always good at communicating the ideas I'm trying to express and I know this got wordy, so, sorry. Hope it helped

    LB

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