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Thread: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    It seems like more of a dialect. Bad English shouldn't be taught in the school system. Bad spanish and bad french aren't taught in schools. Why would we support bad English? You can pick up bad english on the street.

    I'm Black and from a college town in New England. When I hear other black people from my town speak in "ebonics" I think something's wrong with them. i'm sure i sound "white" but whatever. Ebonics wouldn't make any sense for me unless I'm fooling around.

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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    As young as I was when I first heard of them trying to teach Ebonics I was still appalled that they would even want to teach people improper English. Why would anyone want to teach slang as a language?

    "now children is 'ax you a question' not 'ask'." Oh god I can hear it now. I'm glad they decided to never teach it.
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  3. #28
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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    Here's my thoughts on it.

    Slang is going to always be used in certain social circles and most of us do it without realizing it as well.

    But, when I read a post that's headed with it..spoken etc it basically gives off the impression that this person is uneducated and a wanna be.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner View Post
    It's definitely not "slang." It's also not a "regional dialect," as AAVE is spoken across the U.S. as well as in parts of the Caribbean and other islands
    .
    It is a dialect and people who speak it and SAE are bidialectal,not bilingual

    " Vernacular English (AAVE), also called African American English, Black English, Black Vernacular, Black English Vernacular (BEV), or Black Vernacular English (BVE) is a (, and ) of the , particularly ."
    Current linguistic theory shows that AAVE is a dialect of English and thus of Indo-European origin. Furthermore, the differences between modern AAVE and Standard English are nowhere near as great as those between and , the latter being considered a separate language


    But the majority of those who use it are NOT using it as a dialect and would be hard presed to tell you where it is from other then MTV. It has devolved in the English speaking world as a ghetto language used to show toughness or coolness on par with rappers or other icons,since it is not proper English. Being well spoken and educated is "uncool" or weak,while professing to be an uneducated "thug" is something to aspire to.
    Last edited by cameron_keys; 08-18-2007 at 02:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    Does anyone want to hear, moments before going into surgery, the following:

    "Aww shit yo' chart is whack! Damn yo' gots ta' be kiddin' me you need some muthafuckin' surgery up in heah. Shit cuz, we gotsta get you a 40 or sum shit 'cuz we gonna hafta cut you open all muthafuckin' night. Don't be bleedin' all ovah my new threads, a'ight beotch? What da hell you be eatin' cuz' you gots a tumor da size a my dick up in yous."

    Fine speak ebonics, but shut your freaking mouth and don't complain when you get turned down for that residency position at the hospital.
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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?



    Promote yourself and earn more money! This is a business that is owned by strippers for strippers. Let's make that money!


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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Windy View Post
    i mean im from CA, can my valley girl talk be counted as a language? "like tottaly......" uh..NO. its jus a way of talking.
    great point! i was totally going to use that example too!

    agreed, nothing wrong with people using it everyday. that's their decision. just don't divert funds originally or better applied for SAE, math, history, whatever to teach it imho. that's a waste.

    the linguistical arguement for allowing dialects to develop over time into completely separate languages is a nice academic fancy but not really applicable in the real world. i can appreciate it but not really on my work time/life time.

    i wonder if the french teach "corsican" or french on corsica. (like my tie-in? )

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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by cameron_keys View Post
    It is a dialect and people who speak it and SAE are bidialectal,not bilingual
    Well, not exactly. They are bilingual. They speak the recognized dominant language (SAE) and a single dialect of it (AAVE). If they spoke, say, the AAVE dialect and one of the dialects of Southern American English (e.g two different dialects), they would be bidialectical. The terms are sometimes used interchangeably, but inaccurately.

    Quote Originally Posted by cameron_keys View Post
    " Vernacular English (AAVE), also called African American English, Black English, Black Vernacular, Black English Vernacular (BEV), or Black Vernacular English (BVE) is a (, and ) of the , particularly ."
    Current linguistic theory shows that AAVE is a dialect of English and thus of Indo-European origin. Furthermore, the differences between modern AAVE and Standard English are nowhere near as great as those between and , the latter being considered a separate language
    Well, yes, that was pretty much what I wrote in my thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by cameron_keys View Post
    But the majority of those who use it are NOT using it as a dialect and would be hard presed to tell you where it is from other then MTV. It has devolved in the English speaking world as a ghetto language used to show toughness or coolness on par with rappers or other icons,since it is not proper English. Being well spoken and educated is "uncool" or weak,while professing to be an uneducated "thug" is something to aspire to.
    Please don't take this the wrong way, but you could not possibly be more mistaken.

    Dialects have their own rules of usage, grammar, syntax and semantics. They spring naturally from the human tendency to invent and adapt language. This is as natural to our species as breathing. This happens everywhere, especially on the street, and largely as a social marker to differentiate yourself and your group from others. AAVE is a particularly complex dialect, whether or not it is spoken in the "ghetto" or elsewhere.

    Very few people even know what a dialect is, but that does not keep them from actually speaking it. If you doubt that, see how long a Wall Street Banker who only speaks SME can try to pass himself off in South Central LA as a local gang member. The dialect and subdialects alone are so sophisticated that the users can distinguish between regions, ethnicities and sometimes even gangs. The dialect is a powerful social marker with a complexity at least on a par with any decent security encoding.

    AAVE is one of the most heavily-studied dialect in modern linguistics, and the notion that it is "slang" or "lazy talk" was discredited years ago. But like I said, this is a VERY common belief in many cultures among those who only speak the dominant language. The French discriminate against speakers of the colonial dialects; the Eastern Ukrainians discriminate against the Western Ukrainians and the Russians pretty much discriminate against everybody. But we are not very far behind.

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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    TOO beat me to it.

    Thanks, Baby!

    I will just add my favorite quote on the subject:

    "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy." (who said it? I forget.)

    (IOW, linguistically, there is no difference between the two. The only differences that define something as a "language" vs. a "dialect" are sociopolitical. Any Linguistics 101 class will teach you this. I will also recommend, yet again, Stephen Pinker's book, "The Language Instinct.")
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  10. #35
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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner View Post
    Well, not exactly. They are bilingual. They speak the recognized dominant language (SAE) and a single dialect of it (AAVE). If they spoke, say, the AAVE dialect and one of the dialects of Southern American English (e.g two different dialects), they would be bidialectical. The terms are sometimes used interchangeably, but inaccurately.
    Well.,since Ebonics is not a recognized separate language and instead, a dialect..they cannot be considered bilingual. You cannot speak two languages..if one is not a language.
    bi·di·a·lec·tal (bī'dī-ə-lĕk'təl)
    adj.
    Using two dialects of the same language

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner View Post
    Please don't take this the wrong way, but you could not possibly be more mistaken.

    Dialects have their own rules of usage, grammar, syntax and semantics. They spring naturally from the human tendency to invent and adapt language. This is as natural to our species as breathing. This happens everywhere, especially on the street, and largely as a social marker to differentiate yourself and your group from others. AAVE is a particularly complex dialect, whether or not it is spoken in the "ghetto" or elsewhere.

    Very few people even know what a dialect is, but that does not keep them from actually speaking it. If you doubt that, see how long a Wall Street Banker who only speaks SME can try to pass himself off in South Central LA as a local gang member. The dialect and subdialects alone are so sophisticated that the users can distinguish between regions, ethnicities and sometimes even gangs. The dialect is a powerful social marker with a complexity at least on a par with any decent security encoding.

    AAVE is one of the most heavily-studied dialect in modern linguistics, and the notion that it is "slang" or "lazy talk" was discredited years ago. But like I said, this is a VERY common belief in many cultures among those who only speak the dominant language. The French discriminate against speakers of the colonial dialects; the Eastern Ukrainians discriminate against the Western Ukrainians and the Russians pretty much discriminate against everybody. But we are not very far behind.
    While I agree with some of your points..I stand by my statement that the majority of people who speak Ebonics do NOT fall into this category. And instead are emulating the thug facade they see.They know and are capable of speaking English proper....they choose not to because it is uncool. Ebonics has,because of the rappers and such, become a fad and a status symbol. It is not being spoken for the dialect itself.Therefore, the impression both given and hoped for is that of an uneducated ghetto "thug".

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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    Use Ebonics with people who use it themselves, use "regular English" with people who speak "regular English". That way there is no confusion as to what means what.

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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    We'd all be bilingual if all slangs/dialects were official enough to let someone be bilingual. Shoot I'm bilingual then b/c I say stuff like dude, hella and cool.
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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    I'm sorry, Ebonics cannot be considered a language. It does not have a distinct verb conjugation system, and it's vocabulary is derivative and nearly identical to standard English. It's a dialect at best, and more closely it's simply an ethnic expression of English. If Ebonics is a language unto itself, then the definition of language doesn't mean much. Spanglish could be considered a language and so could pidgin English if you expand it that greatly.

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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaylinn View Post
    LOL.

    Guess you already know my opinion......

    I do not think people speak it to try to sound stupid on purpose...if you grew up around that manner of speaking..it's just like any other regional slang..

    Like Pittsburghese. People from Pittsburgh have a certain manner of speaking that is unique to the res tof the country. It's not a real language, and neither is ebonics.

    And Pittsburghese soudns uneducated. It just sounds liek a buncha kicks and hillbilly's talkin. I have tried my hardest to not let that come out when I speak...but sometimes..it slips out. When you've grown up around a manenr of speaking, it's only normal yuo would speak that way to.


    But I do think that people who talk ghetto sound uneducated when they really arent, and that does bother me. I also think that the way rappers try to create new slang words in their songs as their trademark....and young kids start using these words to sound cool like their favorite rapper....
    And kids start speaking like that because they idolize that rapper or artist....
    but it's a bad thing, IMO. It's real hard to be taken seriously or get hired for a job when you speak slang that other people cannot understand.



    Damn. I am just highly opinionated lately. I really should try to reign that in a bit....
    Basically what your saying is people who speak Ebonics sound uneducated/ghetto, i beg to differ. Everyone will always have their view of ashy and classy. The kids you see in their white tees and fitted hats speaking "slang" from the High Schools...well thats todays rap music influence in full effect.

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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    ^ no one but you has mentioned clothes. now not in one, but two threads. i dont care if youre in the nicest outfit ive ever seen, driving a $100,000 car. if you open your mouth and sound like an uneducated person, like you sound when you speak ebonics imo, the clothes don't matter. just like, to use the example you continue to bring up, if i saw a person wearing a "white tee and fitted hat" i wouldnt assume that they speak ebonics.

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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by lestat1 View Post
    Does anyone want to hear, moments before going into surgery, the following:

    "Aww shit yo' chart is whack! Damn yo' gots ta' be kiddin' me you need some muthafuckin' surgery up in heah. Shit cuz, we gotsta get you a 40 or sum shit 'cuz we gonna hafta cut you open all muthafuckin' night. Don't be bleedin' all ovah my new threads, a'ight beotch? What da hell you be eatin' cuz' you gots a tumor da size a my dick up in yous."

    Fine speak ebonics, but shut your freaking mouth and don't complain when you get turned down for that residency position at the hospital.
    Well you might not want to hear exactly that, because of the content of the speech not the dialect, language or patois (depending on your point of view). I don't know that it is necessarily true that there is no way to speak respectfully to someone ebonics. Besides that - if it was the way you felt most comfortable communicating, and you were being spoken to in a clear and respectful manner (I mean - don't bleed on the hospital sheets is not a sentence that would welcome or appropriate in any language; nor would be addressed as "motherfucker"), then you would probably much, much rather be talked to that way than in a medical jargon that you didn't understand.

    So. Is anyone in a position to explain the difference between a dialect and a patois? Because I would have said it was a patois. Is that wrong?
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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by britt244 View Post
    ^ no one but you has mentioned clothes. now not in one, but two threads. i dont care if youre in the nicest outfit ive ever seen, driving a $100,000 car. if you open your mouth and sound like an uneducated person, like you sound when you speak ebonics imo, the clothes don't matter. just like, to use the example you continue to bring up, if i saw a person wearing a "white tee and fitted hat" i wouldnt assume that they speak ebonics.
    Thats my view and association with the clothing attire....that if your wearing a big ass white t shirt and hat turned sideways..you associated with the "hip hop" culture. You mention you dont care if the person is in the nicest/most expensive outfit driving a Ferarri sports car, if they open their mouth and sound like an "uneducated person" key word sound....that is a difference from actually being uneducated. Sounding is just sounding...nothing more. That is all your opinion...everyone is free to have their opinion and views. I mean its common sense...your not gonna speak Ebonics to to "certain" people...you adapt/cater to what they need to hear to be able to communicate with you.

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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    ^ and thats what i'm saying. if you SOUND uneducated, i don't want to talk to you. it annoys me when people confuse their, there, and they're, and your and you're, so why wouldnt it annoy me when people use other forms of incorrect english?

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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    P.S. some of you guys who are "trying" to speak Ebonics are over exaggerating it to the point where its shows you really are a poser and or trying to hard.

    Heres how a NORMAL ebonics contained discussion should go:

    Person A: Waddup homie

    Person B: Not much mang

    Person A: Same here, just chillin at the crib.

    Person B: Ima bout to get me some chicken wangs.

    Person A: I feel ya...i feel ya.....im getting hungry up in this b*tch.

    Person B: Do what you gotta do mang, ill hit you up later and we gon kick it.

    Person A: Most definitely, aight homie talk to you soon.

    *I know most of you here would be annoyed with this conversation, so thats i wouldnt talk this way to you if i saw you in person. I would cater to your language preferences and our conversation would proceed like this:

    Person A: Hello, how are you doing?

    Person B: Im doing delightful, thanks for asking, and you?

    Person A: Splendid, simply splendid!

    Person B: Thats wonderful to hear.

    Person A: Indeed it is.

    Person B: Well i have to get going now.

    Person A: Have a good day, toodles!

    Person B: You too, goodbye.

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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    I never equated hophop culture slang with ebonics. They seem very different to me.

    I think of ebonics as a "slave" dialect that is mostly spoken in urban and less affluent (bad school systems) parts of the country. Someone already mentioned the example of saying "acks" instead of "ask." Which reminds me, the winner of the Next Pussycat Doll spoke in Ebonics sometimes.

    Hiphop slang and way of speaking is a cultural thing that has nothing to do with education or social class.

    That's just how I see it.

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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahmeerah View Post
    I never equated hophop culture slang with ebonics. They seem very different to me.

    I think of ebonics as a "slave" dialect that is mostly spoken in urban and less affluent (bad school systems) parts of the country. Someone already mentioned the example of saying "acks" instead of "ask." Which reminds me, the winner of the Next Pussycat Doll spoke in Ebonics sometimes.

    Hiphop slang and way of speaking is a cultural thing that has nothing to do with education or social class.

    That's just how I see it.
    I agree.

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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    In many cases, AAVE can capture and convey ideas much more efficiently than can SAE.
    Considering the distinct lack of predictable verb conjugation and subject/predicate agreement, this is a debatable point.

    First, all spoken language, to the extent that it is mutually intelligible within a population, is always a legitimate language.
    Within the subgroup? Absolutely. Within the population at large? Again, debatable.
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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    Maybe lots of you are just jaded with it because you live in a country where you get a chance to get sick of it.

    Coming from down here, well... I love it. I could listen to it all day - it makes me laugh because it's so effortless and cool... yes, cool. But then I could listen to certain general American accents for the same reason.
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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Other Owner View Post

    AAVE is one of the most heavily-studied dialect in modern linguistics, and the notion that it is "slang" or "lazy talk" was discredited years ago. But like I said, this is a VERY common belief in many cultures among those who only speak the dominant language. The French discriminate against speakers of the colonial dialects; the Eastern Ukrainians discriminate against the Western Ukrainians and the Russians pretty much discriminate against everybody. But we are not very far behind.
    Threadjack: IMO the Eastern Ukes do not discriminate on language, they just don't know how to speak Ukrainian. As a matter of fact, ask any Eastern Uke, or even a Kievlanitz, about how lovely authentic Western Ukrainian sounds, and how ugly Surzhyk is. From a language perspective, its not discimination. However, Western Ukes are considered hicks, because most of the region is rural, with exception of Lviv, Ternopil, etc. This is simply my experience though, and there is certainly evidence to contradict. I've just been lucky to run into Russians and Ukes that get along.

    Now that Russians absolutely DID and DO discriminate. Hence, the solidarity in the forced Russification of the....aw fuck, you know all of this. We should discuss it sometime. I am utterly fascinated with Russian v. Ukrainian these days. I just discovered my grandfather's dialect.....

    Steppe dialect is spoken in southern and southeastern Ukraine. This dialect was originally the main language of the Zaporozhian Cossacks.
    o Kuban (known locally as Balachka) is spoken in the Kuban region of Russia, by the Kuban Cossacks, descendants of the original Zaporozhian host, which had migrated here. This dialect features a predominant Russian vocabulary and grammar. It varies greatly from one area to another.
    End threadjack. I don't give much credit to Ebonics. But given the dialectical nuances of the language of my birth country, I can see how the discussion is valid.

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    Default Re: Ebonics: Your Thoughts?

    Why iz ya asking me?
    Don't make me come ovah there bitch...

    http://joel.net/EBONICS/translator.asp

    Why is everybody so disturbed about Ebonics? there are dialects everywhere, and they all make the speaker sound stupid to an outsider.

    For instance, here in Utah, double negatives and certain mispronunications are common, even by educated people. People from elsewhere comment on this. After you live here awhile, you don't notice it any more:

    I hope my son don't do nothing ignoret down to the Stakehouse next Tuesdy, him bein a Gentile and all.

    Translation: I hope my son does nothing rude when he's visiting the LDS church next Tuesday, because he's not a member of that religion.

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