Of course it's a real language. Any combination of sounds that have definitions is a language. An unfortunate one, mind you....in my opinion...but still a language.
Of course it's a real language. Any combination of sounds that have definitions is a language. An unfortunate one, mind you....in my opinion...but still a language.
"The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind."
-Humphrey Bogart
"Sir, if you were my husband, I would poison your drink."
-Lady Astor to Winston Churchill
"Madam, if you were my wife, I would drink it."
-His reply
"If God had intended us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs."
-David Daye
What clothing someone wears has no bearing anything.....
Actually...For a very long time, since I begame interested in boys...that style of dress was what turned me on. Thoes types of guys were what I dated.
I still think guys that dress like that are hot. Very hot.
But....I have dated enough of them to know that they anre't usually nice people. And I have dated enough of them to see that in general, guys who speak like that aren't the brightest in the bunch.
The stories I could tell.....
The guy I'm with now...he is very smart. He speaks liek a normal person.He's a good looking guy and He dresses slightly preppy, and HATES hats. His style of dress doesn't really turn me on much. There's nothign sexier to me than a guy in a fitted hat.
But the way this guy treats me.....I'd take that anyday over a hot guy in a hat because all thoes guys ever did was shit on me.




Glad to hear your current partner is doing you good. I asked some of my girl friends and they said when they see a guy in a fitted hat they think its "played out"....ive noticed it too. Kaylinn, i didnt expect you to favor the whole urban look thing. I thought your preference was GQ or "causal/preppy" style.
like this:![]()
Ugh. Not at all.
One of my ex's....I was 17, and yes, that is FUBU. ( had to take a picture of a picture. I don't have a scanner)
And one of my current boyfriend.
When I was young...like 12 I had the biggest crush on this boy who wore extremly baggy pants( they were in at the time) he always wore a hat, and I thought it was the sexiest thign in the world when he didn't wear a shirt and I coudl see his boxers peek over his jeans. I think that crush formed the type of guys I went after. UNfortunatly...guys that dress like that tend to act a certain way...disrespectful to girls. It took me a very long time to stop going after what I found sexy...and start going after the good boys instead.
Last edited by Kaylinn; 08-18-2007 at 09:28 PM.




No...that look ssilyl to me also. I do not like...what they have on....I'm searchign for pics now...
Kaylinn..your current man is SO much hotter!
I love it when people quote dictionaries back to me. It makes me feel all powerful and shit.![]()
That definition just made the exact same point I outlined in my previous post. In order to be considered bidialectical, they would need to use two dialects of the same language (the example I used was the AAVE dialect and a Southern American English dialect.) Those individuals would be bidialectical.
The reason they are bilingual, and not bidialectical, is that they are using one standardized language (Standard American English) and one dialect of that language (AAVE).
I am a contributing author to a fascinating book called The Five Minute Linguist. It's a compilation of articles on language written by the top experts in the field, but designed for a non-specialist audience. The authors were invited by the national editorial board to participate. The book is really very entertaining, because we originally wrote the pieces for broadcast on NPR, and they were then distributed to high schools nationwide. The book was then published in soft cover in the UK.
The book covers such topics as what happens when babies are deprived of all language; how is language learned in infancy; how bilingual children keep languages separated in their mind; whatever happened to Esperanto; do you have to be a masochist to study Chinese; is there really a "correct" form of language usage and, of course, the difference between a language and a dialect.
I derive no benefit from sales of the book -- proceeds go to the National Museum of Language, so my recommendation is free of commercial interest. You can find it readily on the Internet.
Yeah..he is...you grow up, tastes change.....
I wouldn't trade him for nothing.





t/jack:
TOO, do you get to put 'lexicographer' on your customs form for occupation? Do they go, 'wha...?'
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]




i'm not sure i understand. you're reaffirming that it's one language (eliminating the bilingual label) but noting a "master language" and a "slave language" (true, true, a very very poor choice of descriptives but it's late and i'm having trouble processing in my brain).
also that seems to be splitting hairs, assuming certain pov's, and imo from a global view incorrect. it would be bidialectical still.
but from an american point of view i would agree with you. that's assuming that the SAE is the 'mother tongue' and AAVE as the 'daughter'. although those quirky brits may have a differing opinion of that but they talk funny anyways.![]()
You're not considered bilingual if you speak American Standard English and British Standard English. You're not even considered to be speaking two different dialects! Why would you be considered bilingual for speaking ebonics? That's just stupid and elevating ghetto slang to something higher than it actually is. It's not a language, it's slang. It's no more a language than speaking in Hax0r-speak is a language, or lolcats is a language. If I say, "Dude, that guy is totally 404, maybe he's got a glitch in the Matrix," am I speaking Nerdonics? No. Any kind of subculture will develop its own memes and slang, but that doesn't make it a language or even a dialect. Next thing we know, some dumbass will be trying to act like texting shortcuts belong in the dictionary. "U r totally spking another lang lolz"
Ebonics being its own language is the most rediculous thing I've heard in a while, I don't care how technical you try to get. And for the record, I grew up around this "dialect" so I never assume someone is "uneducated or ghetto" when they open their mouth and speak ebonics. So I'm not down-talking it...Just saying it's not another language. Sorry, it's not.





AAVE is to some extent derived from west african, scots and irish and some english dialects that came over here 100s of years ago. so anyone saying AAVE aka 'ebonics' isn't a proper dialect, is thuggish, etc, etc, is pretty much insulting scots, irish, west africans (and that region covers over a dozen countries, so lots of people to be insulting), and english folks.
languages, including dialects, come from someplace.
but most of the complainers are doing that prescriptivist thing i hate, even as one could easily take apart any number of their posts for crappy grammar and spelling.
but one can be assured that they'd somehow swear their actual poor use of SAE is somehow more acceptable than a dialect of SAE that follows clearly defined rules and structures.
I don't get why anyone would speak/dress/act in a way that dumbs them down. ( speaking of slang )
EOM
Last edited by Tart; 08-19-2007 at 02:18 AM.
My forebears are all from Scotland, Ireland and England, and I doubt they ever considered their slang to be proper English, much less a separate dialect or language that should be taught in a school. I have yet to see any Scots, Irish or English group claiming such a thing, either.
^ My dear, AAVE is not a language, you are correct. It is a dialect of SAE, which we've been saying all along. It is most certainly not "slang," not by a million miles.
Let's show how AAVE is just so damned efficient. I was always blown away by the Kanye West lyric, "His baby mama car, crib is bigger than his." I always thought, "how [in the fuck] am I going to translate that in less than about, oh, 20 words, and really capture the meaning?"
So Kanye uses 9 words; I really need about 22 words in SAE to get the full meaning across:
"The mother of his child, to whom he is not married, has a car and house that are bigger than his are."
OK, kick it up a notch. Here is another part of the song:
You will see him on TV any given Sunday
Win the Superbowl and drive off in a Hyundai
She was s'pose to buy ya shorty TYCO with ya money
She went to the doctor got lipo wit' ya money
She walkin' around lookin' like Michael wit' ya money
Shoulda got that insured, GEICO for ya money( your money)
OK, 56 words. Damn. No way I'm going to capture everything in SAE in 56 words. Think I can do it in less than 85?
You will see him playing pro football on TV on any given Sunday;
Even if he wins the Super Bowl, he will drive home in some cheap Hyundai;
She was supposed to buy your child toy cars with your money;
But instead, she went to the plastic surgeon and got liposuction with your money;
She's had so much plastic surgery that she is walking around looking like Michael Jackson with your money;
You should have taken precautions, like you insure your car with GEICO with your money.
Yes! 56 words in AAVE and 87 to get it into SAE!
Oh Jesus Susan, it's quite obvious that you really didn't read the thread that this stemmed from. It was actually a nudge at BlackSheep more than anything. I am not racist and I will say that only once. I don't feel the need to repeat myself so that you believe me either. Obviously you misunderstood the premise of the questions. I was trying to start a new topic so another could stop being derailed.
Thanks.




...y'all brainiacs should start posting your arguments/discussions in ebonics. Just for fun that is.![]()
"Peter, did you take Stewie to a strip-club? He smells like sweat and fear." - Lois and Stewie (Family Guy) ... "Through early morning fog I see, Visions of the things to be, The pains that are withheld for me, I realize and I can see..."
So what if it's more efficient? It's still crap.
I could make it into even fewer words using texting-speak. That doesn't mean I'm gonna start submitting my resume using that shit, or writing my emails in it to send to my coworkers or boss. I don't even use it in posts or IMs.
I suppose I could be more sensitive to whoever's heritage I might be insulting, but you know what, I don't even care. It's not about heritage anymore, it's about exposure to the media and the positive reinforcement the uneducated gets in today's society. Education is free in this country, and it's not like it takes a huge amount of effort to learn to spell and speak correctly (edit: for a native speaker born in the US, I'm not including people who are learning English as a second language). But American society is founded in a deep and prominent antipathy toward aristocracy and privilege (since it was against precisely that which we fought to establish our independence from Britain), and I'm sure that's why people feel compelled to act like something like ebonics qualifies as a legitimate lingual structure in any way but the technical definition.
Cockney slang is considered a legitimate dialect in England in terms of linguistic study, but I doubt they're fucking offering it in classes over there.




i respect how other people choose to express themselves verbally. But i hate it when people who speak with whatever kind of slang act like if i'm the stupid one cause i can't understand what they said. Like start making fun when i ask them to explain what something means or something.
But what does "spell and speak correctly" really mean? It means spelling and speaking in accordance with Standard American English, but not the other dialects that are alive and well in the culture. And who decides what SAE is? Mostly, it's based on the most common usage in print, and it's then codified in dictionaries by linguists who study how the language is actually used. Then we get into these amazing food fights. I personally like chocolate cheesecake as my best weapon.
I will say this again and again and again and again until I am purple in the face: there is no universal "correct" form of Standard American English. This is the dirty little secret of lexicographers. There is just a standardized one, and that one is in constant flux based on how the language is used by actual people. The notion of "correct" English was hammered in your brain endlessly by unimaginative grammar Nazis with their own psychosexual conflicts when you were too young to defend against your own ownership of your own language. The language is yours, not theirs. Trust me on this. I've translated enough books and introduced into the English language dozens of phrases and terms and ideas that never, ever existed in the language before. Once they appeared in some book, the grammar Nazis jump on board and tell you that you have to observe it. Bullshit! Don't believe them! Publication confers no special privilege at all. There are millions of people who converse in beautiful, intense, unparalleled speech and write in prose that represent wonderful elevations above the confines of any standard that has been arbitrarily established by a backward-looking committee of lexicographers.





as i noted, pretty much everyone in this thread talking about how AAVE 'dumbs you down' or whatthefuckever uses 'standard english' incorrectly-- several instances have appeared in this very thread!
'prescriptivism' is the notion that some grammatical uses are superior to others. this incidentally creates goofy rules like 'don't end a sentence with a preposition'. there is a very funny quote deflating that prescriptivist 'rule'.
a lot of posters are dismissing AAVE/ebonics from a place of complete linguistic and grammatical ignorance, and that is simply that.
i could pause to decline at length the latent racism that is quite palpable subtextually, but that is somewhat beyond the scope of this primarily linguistic discussion.
It's trashy and I hate it. But hey, whatever floats your boat.
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