Not exactly. If that were the case, there would be no "bilinguals," only "bidialecticals." Here is why this is not true.
In one sense, linguists say that "we all speak a dialect" to emphasize that even within an established language, there are a huge number of subtle dialects. However, in practice, there are a substantive number of evolved dialects that have moved away from the core language and assumed a complexity of their own. This is what AAVE is. A person who is bilingual speaks SAE or SVE and a substantively different dialect of it; a person who is bidialectical speaks two different dialects of one or more languages.
In Chinese, the word "dialect" has an entirely different meaning. It's the only language where the word "dialect" is used to describe languages that are totally mutually unintelligible in the spoken form. In written form, however, there is great uniformity, as all written Chinese is in either Simplified and Traditional and speakers of all dialects can read them.




"Doc still loved true things, but he knew it was not a general love and it could be a very dangerous mistress." - John Steinbeck, Cannery Row
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^ It's a very slippery slope, baby. And I think you did a great job.




You know, now that I've re-read this more carefully, I think I didn't understand the precise definition of "bidialectical" vs. "bilingual." Thanks for explaining.
See, I didn't know that, either. You so smart, baby.In Chinese, the word "dialect" has an entirely different meaning. It's the only language where the word "dialect" is used to describe languages that are totally mutually unintelligible in the spoken form. In written form, however, there is great uniformity, as all written Chinese is in either Simplified and Traditional and speakers of all dialects can read them.![]()
"Doc still loved true things, but he knew it was not a general love and it could be a very dangerous mistress." - John Steinbeck, Cannery Row
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Wow, this is the most active I've seen Nic OR TOO in a long time. Yay!





Language, dialect, ehtnolect, whatever. It's abused as an excuse for poor communication skills by too many.
Other day at work:
(After not giving guy I work with a cookie.)
Him: I see how you is.
Me: What?
Him: You's bein' a bitch wit dem [cookies], shorty.
Me: You just called me a bitch? Right, dude. (Starts to walk away.)
Him: *laughs* Naw, shorty, I fluent in ebonics... (yadda yadda yadda)
I'm sorry, but no language/dialect is an excuse for being downright rude to someone else.
Because there ain't no tits on the radio
^ agreed!





he actually wasn't calling you a bitch at all. he was saying that you were being stingy, according to the structural rules of his dialect. your ignorance led you to apply the rules of YOUR own dialect INCORRECTLY to HIS DIALECT.
you were actually the rude one in this example.
dialects aren't 'lazy' or 'trashy' unless you are applying the rules of one dialect to another ignorantly. if you are ignorantly mapping rulesets from one dialect onto another, then of course the improperly mapped dialect will sound 'wrong'. which is pretty much what is happening throughout this thread.
also, actual slang is being collapsed as representing AAVE or ebonics (a term attached to both AAVE and slang by some california educators, but mostly meant to refer to AAVE), which further muddies things.
the only reason white guys speaking 'ebonics' or 'rap slang' or whathaveyou is considered 'trashy' is because it came from blackfolks and anything that comes from blackfolks is always considered bad first and grudgingly acceptable much later on after it's been thoroughly whitened up/deracinated.
and AAVE hasn't been deracinated yet, so it's still got the stigma.
don't get me wrong-- there's a time and a place for every sort of dialect and some people don't like to code-switch where it might be more apropos, but that does not mean the non-SAE dialects are themselves 'not really dialects, just junk' as people keep stubbornly insisting is the case.




You know, I was sort of thinking the same thing. The problem was not that he was speaking AAVE, but that he was speaking AAVE to someone who was not fluent in the dialect. Misunderstanding is sure to ensue.
Thank you. Nice post.dialects aren't 'lazy' or 'trashy' unless you are applying the rules of one dialect to another ignorantly. if you are ignorantly mapping rulesets from one dialect onto another, then of course the improperly mapped dialect will sound 'wrong'. which is pretty much what is happening throughout this thread.
also, actual slang is being collapsed as representing AAVE or ebonics (a term attached to both AAVE and slang by some california educators, but mostly meant to refer to AAVE), which further muddies things.
the only reason white guys speaking 'ebonics' or 'rap slang' or whathaveyou is considered 'trashy' is because it came from blackfolks and anything that comes from blackfolks is always considered bad first and grudgingly acceptable much later on after it's been thoroughly whitened up/deracinated.
and AAVE hasn't been deracinated yet, so it's still got the stigma.
don't get me wrong-- there's a time and a place for every sort of dialect and some people don't like to code-switch where it might be more apropos, but that does not mean the non-SAE dialects are themselves 'not really dialects, just junk' as people keep stubbornly insisting is the case.
"Doc still loved true things, but he knew it was not a general love and it could be a very dangerous mistress." - John Steinbeck, Cannery Row
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See..the problem with this is that the majority of people who speak this way DO speak proper English. They KNOW that they may be misunderstood outside their group..thats half the point. They CHOOSE to speak this way specifically to appear ghetto and thug.THERES the stigma.
White or black...thug life is considered cool. And thugs are not educated and proper..they are trashy and preferably have criminal backgrounds. And I have little to no patience for people STRIVING to be a criminal element.




Y'know, I would if I could. But I am not fluent in the dialect. If I tried, I would sound like an idiot. I would make mistakes that would make it difficult for an AAVE speaker to glean my exact meaning.
This seems to support the notion that AAVE really is a language in its own right (i.e. a dialect that differs significantly from SAE, to the extent that the two are not always perfectly mutually intelligible).
"Doc still loved true things, but he knew it was not a general love and it could be a very dangerous mistress." - John Steinbeck, Cannery Row
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“What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” - ECKHART TOLLE





i'm not rascist (sp?) but when i hear ebonics... i run the other way.
why not say "what's up" instead of "what it do?"
if that's even what it means... lol




"Doc still loved true things, but he knew it was not a general love and it could be a very dangerous mistress." - John Steinbeck, Cannery Row
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I was the rude one?
What he said to me bugs me because (to me) it seems like he finds it ok to be on the boundaries of respect just because I'm younger (and maybe female - the guy has serious female issues). I'm his boss and he talks to me like that yet NEVER speaks to the male managers like that. It's always "yes sir" and so-called proper English around them. Which seems like he does not respect me in the same capacity he respects others.
I suppose this is a sensitive spot for me because of more than just the language thing.
Because there ain't no tits on the radio





to sirona: if you read the conversation excerpt, he specifically was not calling the girl in question a bitch at all. that is clear even from context. she wilfully chose to claim something that wasn't true due to her own preconceived notions about the guy talking to her.
some people do hear what isn't there if it suits their prejudices.
Last edited by miabella; 08-19-2007 at 06:13 PM. Reason: x-post




before we keep attcking hardkandee's example, why don't we find out what the context was,..... ie, miabella said she was being stingy, but was she?
Its very easy to take that short abbreviated conversation out of context because we do not know what led up to it.
but, mia, to counter your example, while you state he was using proper aave vernacular, does that mean I have the right to call an african-american the N-word, as it is part of AAVE vernacular? If he is offended, should I tell him that he is offending me for getting upset at me for using that word. (Which I find henious for the record).





I bake. People that work for me are always wanting "samples." He ate 7 (yes, I'm anal and count but I never charge them like I should and am happy that people like my treats). I was putting the rest out for sale, that's all. I don't think I was being stingy.
Because there ain't no tits on the radio




thanks hdk, I think it clear that while he didn't realize it he did insult you, even if he had 1 or 2, or none, doesn't mean you talk to anyone like that.
Sound liek to me that he speaks proper to everyone else, but, for some reason lacks respect for you.





Because there ain't no tits on the radio
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