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Thread: are you ready for a barter society ?

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    Senior Member tronie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor

    Hi there.. I just read about losing jobs to cheaper labor overseas and this is what popped into my head. I do understand the concern.. but I believe that even if we all lose our jobs this is a situation that will be quickly resolved.. say every Brit, shit.. everyone not in a "cheap labor" country loses their job because someone can supply us with what we do cheaper.. well.. if we arent consuming doesnt that make their jobs useless.. We have to have money to buy their $0.10 socks.. without us buying their working soon becomes unnecessary. Okay.. well.. I just figured I'd put that out there to get some ideas back.. I havent given it too much thought but to expound I guess because I suppose a potential question would be "well.. wouldnt they become in 'power' (if money does indeed equal power) .. but lets not forget.. they only have $100/mo.. basically what I see happening if something like this did happen is that we would have a sense of deflation. Are parents might wonder why they arent poor (example.. im sure none of them wonder this, for the record) when candy used to cost $0.01 and now cost $5.00 .. well.. thats because pay went up.. if we only make $100 a month people will have to sell us food at a price that is comparable for us to be able to buy it and them to stay afloat. But in all honesty (and I do understand it is improper English to start a sentence with "But") .. we can survive without money.. sure we might have to trade 50lbs of cheese for that iPod, but money is a relatively new concept in the history of survival.. shit.. maybe we will stop polluting the Earth so much.. eat locally grow organic food, drink unpasteurized fresh milk, and walk our fat American asses to good health.. it could be a bit of a shock.. but maybe some real investment is starting a garden and getting on a farm that is self sustaining. Food for thought, or so they say.


    that said.. I've been thinking about investment. I'm glad you brought it up.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor

    say every Brit, shit.. everyone not in a "cheap labor" country loses their job because someone can supply us with what we do cheaper.. well.. if we arent consuming doesnt that make their jobs useless.. We have to have money to buy their $0.10 socks.. without us buying their working soon becomes unnecessary.
    this viewpoint assumes that all of the workers in the 'cheap labor' countries will stay as poor 'peasants' forever. However, what is actually happening is that some of those poor 'peasants' work very hard, save their meager salaries, and start buying the socks they are making for themselves to wear. After a few years of working very hard and saving their salaries, they also start to be able to afford to buy other things for themselves, like say beef instead of rice or cell phones instead of pay phones, or even cars instead of bicycles.

    As workers in the 'cheap labor' countries become consumers of their own products, these 'cheap labor' countries no longer 'need' to continue depending on American or European consumers to keep their businesses / paychecks / financial cycle running. Also, the loss of American or European consumers isn't necessarily a bad thing if that American or European consumption is in reality being paid for by bad loans financed by the central banks of the 'cheap labor' countries - who will get stuck for the loss when those American or European consumers don't make their loan payments !

    f we only make $100 a month people will have to sell us food at a price that is comparable for us to be able to buy it and them to stay afloat.
    says who ? Millions of people still starve to death every year - they just don't happen to be Americans or Europeans. Ultimately, producing various foodstuffs has a quantifiable cost of production ( energy cost of making fertilizer, diesel fuel for tractors, transportation costs, property taxes on farmland etc.) ... and if the market price isn't high enough to cover those costs the producers will switch to doing something else instead of operating at a loss.

    It's entirely possible that the recent Mexican tortilla situation (where ethanol diversion boosted the price of corn so high that tortillas soon cost an entire day's pay) could happen in America or Europe. Of course we would have to rely on the same solution as the Mexicans did, gov't subsidies ! Unfortunately for America and Europe, unlike Mexico we don't have huge oil fields and a surplus of oil to export which could be utilized to pay for those food subsidies. Our food subsidies will have to be paid for by increasing taxes on those people who are still working and still earning some reasonable amount of income ... which they increasingly won't be allowed to keep for themselves and for their own families standard of living because it will be needed to feed / clothe / shelter their non-working neighbor's family.

    But in all honesty .. we can survive without money.. sure we might have to trade 50lbs of cheese for that iPod, but money is a relatively new concept in the history of survival.
    Certainly some of us can survive without money i.e. a barter society. But that immediately leads to the question as to what can you produce that actually has value to someone else, so that they'll agree to barter with you. Do you have the wherewithal to actually produce 50 pounds of cheese from scratch i.e. farmland for raising animal feed --> barns etc. to care for animals and collect milk --> presses to produce cheese ?

    Ask yourself what goods or services you ( i.e. your average American or European) could actually provide to others in a barter society that they would want to trade their own goods or services for. Can you make anything from 'scratch' i.e. flour, fabric, lumber, metal ? Can you put things together from scratch ingredients i.e. bake bread, sew clothing, build a house, forge a plow ? Probably 90%+ of Americans and Europeans no longer have these skills. So what skills DO most Americans and Europeans have that would be valuable enough to other Americans and Europeans that they would be willing to barter for in exchange for food / clothing / shelter ?

    Are parents might wonder why they arent poor (example.. im sure none of them wonder this, for the record) when candy used to cost $0.01 and now cost $5.00 .. well.. thats because pay went up..
    in point of fact, what really happened is that the 'purchasing power' of the dollar has been diluted over the decades. It really doesn't matter if the average American earns $100 a month or $10,000 a month. What DOES matter is how this level relates to the prices of necessary commodities and services ... which ultimately determines the average American's standard of living. In the 'roaring 20's' a $100 a month income level resulted in a relatively high standard of living compared to the rest of the world. However, the skeptics will tell you that a $10,000 a month income level will probably result in a very poor standard of living by the time the 2020's gets here !

    In today's globalized economy the exchange rate of the US dollar plays a huge role in determining the average American standard of living, because the majority of raw materials and products needed to sustain the current American standard of living are increasingly being priced in different currencies.

    eat locally grow organic food, drink unpasteurized fresh milk, and walk our fat American asses to good health.. it could be a bit of a shock.. but maybe some real investment is starting a garden and getting on a farm that is self sustaining.
    Fortunately, I live far enough into the 'boondocks' that I have the land available to grow my own organic food. And while I don't have my own barn / tractor / grazing land for animals, my neighbors do ! I still can't jog on the public roads though, because the Sherriff's patrol asked me to stop after the second car full of horny guys drove into the ditch (so I bought a treadmill) ! In fact, between friends and family, there are enough resources and enough talent kicking around my small town that we could be self-sufficient (including everything from meat processing, to homemade ethanol / biodiesel fuel, to fielding a well armed 'posse' to protect ourselves from 'marauders').

    However, 90+% of Americans are living in cities and suburbs where they have nowhere near this level of self-sufficiency. If the electricity goes out, if the local supermarket doesn't get regular deliveries, or if the police don't show up, they're in deep shit. All you have to do is look at the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, versus the same aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in Mississippi, to see the glaring differences !!!
    Last edited by Melonie; 08-25-2007 at 09:20 AM.

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    Senior Member tronie's Avatar
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    Default Re: are you ready for a barter society ?

    holy shit.. I am sure I didnt make a new topic.. thats really weird.. last night I viewed it in other post.. internet oddity.

    okay.. Ill read your response in a minute (thanks for adding one).


    truely weird though.. I never made a topic name either.. .Im really confused.

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: are you ready for a barter society ?

    You didn't create a new thread as can be seen on the re: of the first message. But obviously the moderator thought the subject was worthy of it's own thing. Moderators can move things around - it's more than just smacking trolls down.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: are you ready for a barter society ?

    ^^^ yes you tucked your original post at the end of an old sticky thread which would have guaranteed that virtually nobody would have found it and read it. Since I felt that your point was rather important, I split off your post into its own thread.

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    Veteran Member StuartL's Avatar
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    Default Re: are you ready for a barter society ?

    There are barter groups. In the UK, the firm is called bartercard - I know there are US versions but I can't recall the names offhand. Ibex maybe ... or is that a goat!

    Anyway, you pay a percentage to the barter firm but can then trade with many other companies and people that want to use the system but not whatever it is you trade.

    I tried to use a couple of these for marketing services, but thanks to Jay Abraham, anyone who understands marketing also understands barter...

    Worth investigating though.

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    Senior Member tronie's Avatar
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    Default Re: are you ready for a barter society ?

    Oh.. I didnt realize.. I thought some sort of weirdness happened not involving anyone else.. I will take that as a compliment.

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    Default Re: Financial Advice for Dancers from a Financial Advisor

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    I still can't jog on the public roads though, because the Sherriff's patrol asked me to stop after the second car full of horny guys drove into the ditch (so I bought a treadmill) ! In fact, between friends and family, there are enough resources and enough talent kicking around my small town that we could be self-sufficient (including everything from meat processing, to homemade ethanol / biodiesel fuel, to fielding a well armed 'posse' to protect ourselves from 'marauders').

    However, 90+% of Americans are living in cities and suburbs where they have nowhere near this level of self-sufficiency. If the electricity goes out, if the local supermarket doesn't get regular deliveries, or if the police don't show up, they're in deep shit. All you have to do is look at the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, versus the same aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in Mississippi, to see the glaring differences !!!
    The jogging comment was hilarious . As for myself I am sick of city life, and looking to move to a smaller town in the north that is more self sustaining and just plain more quiet. I was in New Orleans up till the day before Katrina. I have friends in Mississippi, and there they have a tendancy to get things done out of sheer will without as much gov assistance as New Orleans was given. I have not been able to return to New Orleans and with all the daily problems I read about on www.nola.com I am glad I have not. New Orleans has managed to get so little done even in comparison to Jefferson Parish which also suffered flooding. Off the top of my head if I was going to barter something I would probably grow tobacco to barter. Because it always seems that people will smoke more in stressfull times.
    "Can we read it on the Smoking Gun? "

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    Default Re: are you ready for a barter society ?

    Yep, I'm ready.



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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: are you ready for a barter society ?

    I was in New Orleans up till the day before Katrina. I have friends in Mississippi, and there they have a tendancy to get things done out of sheer will without as much gov assistance as New Orleans was given. I have not been able to return to New Orleans and with all the daily problems I read about on I am glad I have not. New Orleans has managed to get so little done even in comparison to Jefferson Parish which also suffered flooding.
    this was my point exactly !

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