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Thread: Equalism, not masculism or feminism

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    Featured Member Hatshepsut's Avatar
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    Default Equalism, not masculism or feminism

    It's obvious that women have had a revolution. We can vote, we can work out of the home, and we can control our fertility. However, I feel that the shift of equality of the sexes has not reached men in the same way. Since men are 50% of the population, I feel that feminism and equality of the sexes cannot be achieved unless men have a revolution of their own. This inequality hurts men as well as women. For example, if a man takes his wife's last name, he is ridiculed as a pussywhipped granola going against the natural/holy order of things. He also has to go through the process of name change while women only have to get their legal documents and IDs changed. Women can have maternity leave, but men do not always get paternity leave.

    Back in the days before suffrage, men ran the system. Unless the women packed up and moved to Estrogen-topia to start up their own society, they would not be able to get their way unless the men changed in some way, shape, or form. It's the same way today. Men and women both compose 50% of the population, so there has to be harmony in order to achieve equality.

    Do you believe that there needs to be a male revolution to realize that times have changed, and that men are hurt by gender stereotypes as well as women?

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    BrunetteGoddess
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    Default Re: Equalism, not masculism or feminism

    I agree. If you want one aspect of something to change, you need the aid of outside factors to really make it stick. Otherwise you will have those outside factors that have not changed contantly putting strain on the one aspect that is trying to change.

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    God/dess Mr Hyde's Avatar
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    Default Re: Equalism, not masculism or feminism

    I don't think there needs to be a revolution, but there are some things that need to be addressed.

    1-The way boys are taught in school, especially elementary school
    2-The way fatherhood is viewed in our society (should be seen as equally important as motherhood, and as a whole it's not)
    3-Men as a whole need to become more mature at an earlier age.

    There are more but that's off the top of my head.

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    Featured Member Hatshepsut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Equalism, not masculism or feminism

    ^May I ask about how school needs to be changed for boys? I did once read an article about how the education system is more favorable to women, which had some good points, but I can't remember much.

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    Default Re: Equalism, not masculism or feminism

    3-Men as a whole need to become more mature at an earlier age.
    This is genetically and socially impossible; we're just not wired to do that.

    May I ask about how school needs to be changed for boys? I did once read an article about how the education system is more favorable to women, which had some good points, but I can't remember much.
    I don't have time to make a full post (getting ready to head out to the SC ), but there's a growing body of literature that suggests that the educational system is increasingly hostile to boys and in some cases outright emasculating.

    Christina Hoff Summers' book, The War Against Boys is an excellent primer on the phenomenon.

    I'll post more later...
    Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.

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    Default Re: Equalism, not masculism or feminism

    I wouldn't necessarily say that a revolution is needed, far from that in my opinion. Rather I would say society needs to look at the last 40 years or so, and see what changes have occurred, and if there are corrective action need to be taken.

    For example, if the government is looking for a company to make paper for dollar bills. If company A says we can give it to you for 15,000,000 and is run/owned by white-men. And company B says we can give you the exact same thing, but, for 17,000,000 and is owned by a minority; then in allot of cases the government has to go to the ,minority company. i say let there be a free-market, regardless of who owns what and let the best price win.

    I guess what I'm trying to say overall is that while there were biases in the pasts, it looks like allot of them were corrected, and "over-corrected" and hurt future generations.

    it may not sound right, but, what my parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents did, should not mean that I should be punished.

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    Featured Member Hatshepsut's Avatar
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    Default Re: Equalism, not masculism or feminism

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Real View Post
    I guess what I'm trying to say overall is that while there were biases in the pasts, it looks like allot of them were corrected, and "over-corrected" and hurt future generations.

    it may not sound right, but, what my parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents did, should not mean that I should be punished.
    Yes! Yes! YES! I hate the victim mentality and the "You need to take it like a bitch because your grandparents wronged me," bullshit! I hate people who claim that they've been wronged, yet treat others the same way! I once chewed out a guy who told me, "I'm sorry for all that my sex has done to you women." What? Why should he apologize? He didn't do anything! Suffering for your father's sins is bullshit, although it should not be forgotten lest it be repeated.

    Whenever I hear that a girl has hit a guy for a reason other than a serious one (such as trying rape her or grabbing her), I ask her if she believes in equal rights for a woman. She will undoubtedly say yes, and I will tell her that good, she can either let him hit her or have charges pressed. They balk and spout bullshit about how men shouldn't hit women. I hate the hypocrisy. Nobody should be hitting anyone, and those who do so are abusive regardless of sex.

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    God/dess Mr Hyde's Avatar
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    Default Re: Equalism, not masculism or feminism

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatshepsut View Post
    ^May I ask about how school needs to be changed for boys? I did once read an article about how the education system is more favorable to women, which had some good points, but I can't remember much.
    CO covered some of it...the need 20-30 years ago to help girls in our schools has had a bit of a backlash also. In addition to what CO recommended reading, I'd also suggest "The Emotional Lives of Boys."

    I think boys as a whole are getting short-changed in our schools. I am not blaming women or feminists, it was just a natural consequence of the movement to further women's education. Boys are wired differently that girls...at a genetic level. Boys can't sit and sing songs patiently and do assignments quietly all day. They need action and motion and "doing."

    I'd be ok with partially segregated classrooms with more male teachers.

    And I don't mean to introduce race into this, but I'd also be ok with schools that are voluntarily segregated by race. There is a growing body of research that suggests that black kids, boys especially, learn better in an atmosphere with only their peers and when taught by a black man. Given the persistent problems with education among blacks in our society, I'd be willing to give almost anything a try if it would help.

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    Default Re: Equalism, not masculism or feminism

    Society in general is so afraid to step on someone else's toes that it isn't even funny anymore. Freedom of speech is almost dead... you have to think twice before making a statement, because there will most likely be someone opposing your statement and conveniently reading some form of discrimination, racism, ignorance, or whatnot into it, just to gain support.
    So, to establish equality between men and women, we have to establish equality as a society first... and as we all know, that is almost impossible.
    On the other hand, wouldn't it be absolutely boring if everyone would be the same?

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    Default Re: Equalism, not masculism or feminism

    Eh, I'll let men worry about their masculinity. Frankly, as a woman, I'm sick of their bullshit and don't plan on making a point to help them. We have to look out for ourselves, men sure as hell aren't going to do it for us.

    Feminism is needed just as much today as ever before, in the famous words of Gloria Steinem, "In my heart, I think a woman has two choices: either she's a feminist or a masochist."
    Check out my new eBay auctions.......

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    Default Re: Equalism, not masculism or feminism

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatshepsut View Post
    Do you believe that there needs to be a male revolution to realize that times have changed, and that men are hurt by gender stereotypes as well as women?
    Hat:

    IMO, within the United States, the need for male revolution probably varies from region to region. Stereotypes and calcified gender roles are typically transmitted generationally, and often reflect the values and lifestyles that are intrinsic to a given area. For reasons that become abundantly clear during election years, communities located in traditionally "conservative" parts of the country can be expected to embrace the same mindsets as their forbears.

    At the risk of generalizing, I'll go out on a limb and suggest that the inhabitants of Biloxi, Mississippi might be less receptive than those of West Hollywood, California to egalitarian reforms of gender roles...

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