View Poll Results: Do you believe in the right to ridicule religion?

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  • No.

    9 19.57%
  • Yes.

    37 80.43%
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Thread: The right to ridicule a religion

  1. #1
    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default The right to ridicule a religion

    Artist Lars Vilks has made three drawings ridiculing the prophet Mohammed. The prophet is portrayed as a “roundabout dog”.
    So far three art exhibitions have declined to publish his pictures. The Art Association in Tällerud said no. Then the school Gerlesborgsskolan in the county of Bohuslän said no. Now the Museum of Modern Art in Stockholm has also said no.
    This is unacceptable self-censorship. A liberal society must be able to do two things at the same time. On the one hand, it must be able to defend Muslims’ right to freedom of religion and their right to build mosques. However, on the other hand, it is also permissible to ridicule Islam’s most foremost symbols – just like all other religions’ symbols. There is no opposition between these two goals. In fact, it is even the case that they presuppose each other.

    http://www.na.se/artikel.asp?intId=1209676
    See the drawing: here.

    Many believe that they have the right to no hear or see things that offend them. But that viewpoint turns the freedoms of speech, expression and religion on their heads.

  2. #2
    God/dess PaigeDWinter's Avatar
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    A person has the RIGHT to do so, but does that mean that they SHOULD do so publicly? Meh. But just as a person has the right to make art such as you posted, public forums have the right to not want to host it.
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  3. #3
    God/dess Silverback's Avatar
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    Any, but mine.

    So lay off Thor, Oden, and Loki!
    "He will come in one of the pre-chosen forms. During the rectification of the Vuldrini, the traveler came as a large and moving Torg! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Slor! Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!"

  4. #4
    cameron_keys
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    Yes they have the right to draw it(although personally I think this pic looks like a 6 year old drew it)
    The gallerys also have the right not to show it.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    I don't know if I believe in rights since they are never really applied universally. People are not fairminded in way too many cases.

    Why would someone want to ridicule something like that anyway? To get a rise out of someone. What are they trying to say? It just seems childish.

  6. #6
    God/dess xdamage's Avatar
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    As others have said, and the right not to host a work goes hand in hand with freedom of speech. That said, there is the practical consideration that not everyone in the world believes in freedom of speech, and there is always the possibility of violence or other forms of retaliation when you host something controversial/offensive to certain groups of people. This is one of those cases. There is a fairly good possibility that hosting that image would result in retaliation and violence. It all comes down to some human(s) making the call, and ultimately bearing some responsibility for the consequences, or possible retaliation against themselves or families. If you were in their shoes, how would you choose?

  7. #7
    Featured Member desavirsire's Avatar
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    Thats the drawing of a professional artist?!? In that case I am going to put my random doodles on exhibition...

  8. #8
    Veteran Member CupCake's Avatar
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    That drawing sucks eggs lol....
    Anyhoo... I bealieve people should have the right to ridicule religion... Maybe I'm a tad biased because I don't identify with any religion, and I bealieve religion is man made...but thats for another thread. Anyhoo this is going to sound terrible but you can't choose what color your skin is, but you CAN choose your religion. So in my opinion religion is fair game to poke fun at... Even if your drawings look similar to a 5th graders

  9. #9
    God/dess Bella21's Avatar
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    Just like we have the right to make some (often hilarious) political cartoons, people should have the right to state their beliefs about religion. Everyone has different views and must have the right to express those views or it just lets the people at the top have too much control.
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  10. #10
    God/dess Mr Hyde's Avatar
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    The museums have a right to not want to host it...UNLESS...

    they are publicly financed, and in the past have also exhibited art that has ridiculed other religions.

  11. #11
    exotisch23
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    I would never ridicule someone based on their religion. Nor would I bash any particular religion in public or on a message board because I think it's funny. It's just immature and wrong, imo.

  12. #12
    God/dess Andygirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    I believe in freedom of speech in every form. You don't have to agree with something to agree with a person's right to say it/do it.

    As for religion, I think all of it is bullshit, so say whatever ya want.
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  13. #13
    God/dess doc-catfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    I believe in the right to ridicule anything. Relgion (namely the organized variety) is just a vehicle that encourages a groupthink mindset and encourages divisive behavior anyway.
    Former SCJ now in rehab.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    Oh, I'm an atheist and I really disagree with religious dogma. But on the otherhand, I understand that some people take it really seriously...I'm not saying it's wrong to needle people because of their beliefs, but sometimes it just seems like this happens for no reason other than to start some shit. But I guess for nihilists that is reason alone. I say this with all do respect for nihilism.

  15. #15
    Veteran Member SnakeBabe's Avatar
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    I think the bible has a nice answer for this.
    “All things are lawful but not all things are expedient.”
    This means that yes; you can do a thing but is it smart or good to do it?
    Will it hurt someone?
    Will it better your cause?
    So, if you’re looking to show the “wrongs” of a religion or person would you prove yourself by doing something hurtful or showing love and having an honest discussion? Would this wrong be better corrected in sharing facts or ridicule?
    I’ll go with the apostle Paul and do it in love in hopes to correct them or possibly learn something myself.

    I often think about my “Right” to ridicule people in my comedy show. I have done it in the past, it got me a laugh but at a cost I just don’t seem to like so I pretty much put an end to it. I would hate to make a joke about Charles Manson and have a family member of one of his victims in the audience. Sure many would laugh but the hurt to that one person would not be worth it just for humor.

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  16. #16
    God/dess RoseWhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    I'm always going to side with freedom of speech in every situation, ultimately, and that's how I voted here.

    BUT. There is one additional factor in this debate that I think does make it somewhat more complex. I'm not saying that it should change anyone's mind, and that it doesn't mean that I don't feel that some Muslims have totally overreacted (I mean, rioting & violence?), but it is worth considering in context.

    The primary reason that Muslims reacted SO strongly to this is that in their religion, it is totally forbidden to depict Mohammed visually in any way, even in a favorable portrait that would ostensibly honor and respect him. It simply is not done, it is against their laws. You do not find paintings of Mohammed in mosques and museums the same way that we see representations of Jesus plastered all over churches.

    So this is why it is seen as a double insult. It's against their religion to depict him at ALL, much less in a way that ridicules him. AGAIN - I'm not saying that this should change your opinion (it doesn't change mine), but if you're sincerely baffled as to why even reasonable Muslims were offended by this, at least this will add a little context. Many may have overreacted, yes, but there at least is some rationale behind it.
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  17. #17
    God/dess dlabtot's Avatar
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by RoseWhite View Post
    The primary reason that Muslims reacted SO strongly to this is that in their religion, it is totally forbidden to depict Mohammed visually in any way, even in a favorable portrait that would ostensibly honor and respect him. It simply is not done, it is against their laws. You do not find paintings of Mohammed in mosques and museums the same way that we see representations of Jesus plastered all over churches.
    Who gives a fuck? The artist is not a Muslim, therefore he doesn't have to follow their rules.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    ^^I agree with you...but I still say "what is the point?". Why offend people like that? Aren't there better ways to criticize their beliefs, if you choose to do so?

  19. #19
    Featured Member yogibear179's Avatar
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    i wouldnt post that in my museum not becasue of the religion thing (i voted yes) but because its ugly


  20. #20
    God/dess RoseWhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by dlabtot View Post
    Who gives a fuck? The artist is not a Muslim, therefore he doesn't have to follow their rules.
    I think I was at least semi-clear that I basically agree with you, I'm just saying that that IS one reason, whether or not you think it's remotely rational. I think MOST of all organized religions are irrational, for what it's worth.

    Am I obligated to follow Jewish dietary laws? Hell no. But that doesn't mean I should act surprised if I show up at a Passover seder with a giant basket of fresh yeasty French loaves, a shrimp cocktail, and a pork roast . . . and it's not exactly well-received. "JEEEZ! *eyeroll*" You people are soooo sensitive!"

    It's not against the law for me to do so. Thus it could be argued that, technically, I have the "right" to do so. Does that make it a good thing? Subjective at best.
    "Before I conceived you, I wanted you. Before you were born, I loved you. Before you were here an hour, I would die for you. This is the miracle of life." -- Maureen Hawkins

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  21. #21
    God/dess xdamage's Avatar
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    Default Re: The right to ridicule a religion

    Quote Originally Posted by RoseWhite View Post
    It's not against the law for me to do so. Thus it could be argued that, technically, I have the "right" to do so. Does that make it a good thing? Subjective at best.
    Sure, and you're more or less saying the same thing that SnakeBabe is saying, which is a reasonable point of view.

    Personally I think I've made it very clear what I think about religion, and the value of being able to ridicule religious beliefs, but that doesn't mean I think we should be oblivious to the fact that ultimately we are still dealing with a large group of human beings who believes certain things, and in this case, greatly offended (even to the point of violence) about something that is mostly irrelevant to me. That is to say, my disagreement goes far beyond the issue of whether to show this image or not, so I really don't care that much if it's shown, or not. If showing it would just further alienate this group, it's not at all clear to me that anything useful came out of it. In fact, it's very likely to strengthen their belief system (due to the us and them think that reinforces group think). A case of winning the battle at the expense of losing the war.

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