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Thread: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

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    Default Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    Scores East... High earning potential, management ranges from very sweet/helpful/respectful to not that nice/competent. Same with hosts.

    Dancers are for the most part nice(ish) to each other. Very nice clientèle. Most respect contact rules. Am propositioned for extras from time to time, but generally am not from my "niche" clients...

    Main issue is house fees/required tip outs...

    Usually around $200.00 (diamond dollars) to house (no house fee on Sundays)

    Min. $10.00 to house mom (the house moms are all actually very nice)

    Min. $10.00 to make up (that's if she DOESN'T touch you) If she does as much as mascara it starts at $20.00. (Again, make up women are also very nice)

    $40.00 (can be diamond dollars) to DJ. If you are in room for two hours or more it automatically goes up to $100.00

    Host gets a MINIMUM of 10% of the total (including what you get tipped) PER hour of the VIP room the booked you in. Percentage can go up to as much as 20-25% depending on the situation.

    VIP room pays $500.00/hour and $300.00/half hour. If it pays in diamond dollars, they then take an additional 5% when you cashing them in.

    I FREQUENTLY pay as much as $500.00 a night in total tip outs...

    If this was the standard in Manhattan, I would be a little more okay with it, but YIKES! It seems their required house fees etc., are as much as TWICE the other top NYC clubs (Hustler and PEC)...

    I'm okay with many of these tip outs (I think they are for the most part deserved), but have to admit I feel as though the house fees ($200.00 BUCKS!!!) are just too high...


    Overall, really like the place, and definitely worth the pay outs

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    Damn no wonder you wanna go to Vegas!!

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    exotisch23
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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    That's just absolutely freaking ridiculous.

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    Quote Originally Posted by LatinaRose View Post
    Damn no wonder you wanna go to Vegas!!

    Tell me about it! lol

    btw - thanks for the heads up on Vegas, I'm gonna go check out the conventions now

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    WoW. I've never danced at SES. I was waiting till I got my boobies done. But shit, with that kind of piracy, I'll just stick to the PEC on my New York trips. At least my tip-out is reasonable and have never ever had a bad night there ever.

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    Everyone, take the info as you want, but please do note that my original post was NOT a flame against the club... Just a general sharing of information


    Thanks!

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    Banned Eric Stoner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    You work there - Why ? For years I've never understood why anyone would want to go there as either a custie or a dancer. They've always had the highest , most ridiculous house fees and tip-outs. Everybody there seems to try to dip into the purses of the dancers and the pockets of the custies.

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    thats sooo fucked up about the makeup thing. $10 for her NOT to put makeup on you?? thats ridiculous. And $10 extra just to put mascara on. Thats fucking robbery, I'm sorry. The DJ tips and host tips....wow. Fuck, they are probably millionaires by now. I hope they are not greedy and expect all kinds of extra tips on top of that ASTRONOMICAL amount. I hate to be a bitch, but this made me so infuriated. Dancers are the ones who bear most of the burden of the work, at least what I think is the hardest part. YOU are the one DEALING with the customers, which can be exhausting, and you deserve that money, not have it taken away from fucking funny money. PS, not to mention we are the ones who are actually GETTING naked. I think the DJ always deserves a great tip for creating the atmosphere bc a club can't function without him, but damn, I think any DJ would be doing backflips getting $100 tips from multiple girls. I'm sorry but I hope you are making thousands of dollars a night for having to be robbed like this.

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    Wait-so if you are doing a room (and therefore not on stage or in anyway near the Dj, you have to pay more?

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    Quote Originally Posted by RoseLeigh View Post
    Wait-so if you are doing a room (and therefore not on stage or in anyway near the Dj, you have to pay more?
    ^^ Ha! I never though of it that way...

    I guess I just pay what they tell us to. I'm not some "dumb stripper" - I KNOW that it's a f'n LOT, but it's Scores... I dunno, I guess I just look at it as another business expense...?

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    Yeah, it really is just another expense we have to fork over. Still, that is quite a lot to pay to the house!

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    Actually, in New York terms, the total amount of dollars that a dancer is required to pay out to Scores isn't all that far out of line with other area clubs that use a different business model. The difference is that Scores blood-sucks $200 in cash stage fee plus about 15% in total tipouts / other fees. Compare this against other clubs that charge very little in the way of stage fees and tipouts, but which blood-suck 50% of the customer's money spent on private dances / VIP's. In point of fact, a girl who sells 20 private dances for $20 in a 50% club is paying out the very same $200.

    If you do the math, high earning dancers are actually far better off paying the $200 up front and retaining an extra 35% of the customers' money that is spent on them (the break-even point is somewhere around $700 a night). On the other hand, 'marginal' dancers stand to lose money with the Scores business model because they must cover the $200 fee before they actually 'earn' any money for the night, whereas in the percentage clubs if they don't earn much money they don't have to pay out much money either.

    I'm sure that the Scores business model with the high fixed dollar stage fee was created for that very reason - to theoretically provide a strong financial disincentive for 'marginal' dancers continuing to work there, while providing a strong financial incentive for high earning dancers to continue working there. These incentives / disincentives only work, of course, if there aren't any 'other' sources of additional income in the equation ... i.e. OTC, 'extras' etc. where the dancer keeps essentially 100% of the additional income and the club doesn't get a 'cut'.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 09-06-2007 at 05:24 AM.

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Actually, in New York terms, the total amount of dollars that a dancer is required to pay out to Scores isn't all that far out of line with other area clubs that use a different business model. The difference is that Scores blood-sucks $200 in cash stage fee plus about 15% in total tipouts / other fees. Compare this against other clubs that charge very little in the way of stage fees and tipouts, but which blood-suck 50% of the customer's money spent on private dances / VIP's. In point of fact, a girl who sells 20 private dances for $20 in a 50% club is paying out the very same $200.

    If you do the math, high earning dancers are actually far better off paying the $200 up front and retaining an extra 35% of the customers' money that is spent on them (the break-even point is somewhere around $700 a night). On the other hand, 'marginal' dancers stand to lose money with the Scores business model because they must cover the $200 fee before they actually 'earn' any money for the night, whereas in the percentage clubs if they don't earn much money they don't have to pay out much money either.

    I'm sure that the Scores business model with the high fixed dollar stage fee was created for that very reason - to theoretically provide a strong financial disincentive for 'marginal' dancers continuing to work there, while providing a strong financial incentive for high earning dancers to continue working there. These incentives / disincentives only work, of course, if there aren't any 'other' sources of additional income in the equation ... i.e. OTC, 'extras' etc. where the dancer keeps essentially 100% of the additional income and the club doesn't get a 'cut'.

    ~
    I guess that's why so many gals at Scores West and many at Scores East end up doing extras. They need the money and don't have to give mgt. a cut EXCEPT for most of the hosts/bouncers ( Mel, you forgot about those wonderful fellows) who depending on your pov are "tipped" or "extort" to help arrange things; steer and/or look the other way . Same thing at PEC and Hustler.

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    I might have a bad memory,but I think a few yesr ago they used to charge 20$ for NOT using the make up lady,and if you used her,then 40$.Might be wrong though.

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    Damn, I make at least the same amount with vip, sometimes getting a lot more and I have never had to tip out close to that much! $500 in tipouts? I would feel so robbed!!

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    I worked there one night and went running back to my reg club...why, why would I give them that much??? It just didnt make sense to me since the hey day is gone for that club...it was empty!!!
    "Whether YOU think you can or YOU think you can't you're right!" -Henry Ford

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    I guess that's why so many gals at Scores West and many at Scores East end up doing extras. They need the money and don't have to give mgt. a cut EXCEPT for most of the hosts/bouncers ( Mel, you forgot about those wonderful fellows) who depending on your pov are "tipped" or "extort" to help arrange things; steer and/or look the other way . Same thing at PEC and Hustler.
    Actually Eric, I was trying to address that particular point in a somewhat tactful manner by referring to 'other' sources of income ... which as you point out bypass the club's cash register (thus avoiding having to pay an official club 'cut'), but which may still involve paying off the host / bouncer if the 'extras' take place inside the club.

    I would also speculate that business managers of these upscale clubs are increasingly finding themselves between a 'rock and a hard place', as a higher percentage of total dollars being spent by club customers seems to be migrating towards 'extras'. Yes the club gets 'room' money, but it does not get a cut of the 'extras' money. This is not a good situation from the selfish financial standpoint of club investors, who see their property taxes going up, their utility bills going up, their insurance costs going up, their legal fees going up etc. but who also see the club's 'cut' from non-'extras' customer spending staying the same or even declining.

    Moreover, there is no way that a club can officially set itself up to collect a cut of 'extras' money without going on record as knowing that 'extras' are taking place, plus allowing / facilitating / promoting those 'extras' taking place. Doing so would open a Pandora's Box of potential prosecutions of club management ( which are currently not possible due to plausible deniability - 'gee, officer, I had no idea what was going on back there !!!'). But charging dancers a large up-front cash stage fee does provide the club with a means of collecting some measure of 'extras' money without being specific as to the source of that money.

    Ironically, when 'extras' are tolerated by club management in clubs that use the high fixed dollar stage fee business model, the financial incentives equation for dancers quickly changes. As you have already pointed out, instead of providing a financial incentive for 'marginal' dancers to move on to other clubs with no / lower stage fees (thus supposedly raising the average appeal level of the club's remaining higher earning dancers and perpetuating the super-upscale club image), the toleration of 'extras' simply provides more incentive for 'marginal' dancers to offer more 'extras'. As club customers get used to the availability of 'extras' they come to expect more 'extras', which in turn forces higher appeal dancers who have not offered 'extras' to accept a lower earnings potential or start offering 'extras' themselves !!!

    Dredging up memories of the last major downturn in the NYC area economy (tech bust of 2000 + 9/11 attack), at that time the super upscale club(s) were not known for 'extras' and still drew in a generous customer base of high rollers, celebrities, corporate types etc. Also at that time, the 'dirty' clubs seemed to continue operating as usual. It was the 'middle of the road' clubs, which didn't have wall to wall top shelf dancers and which also didn't offer 'extras', that took the brunt of the last economic downturn. The reason that I mention this is that today it seems that even the super upscale clubs have become known for 'extras' ... which implies that when the current economic downturn really starts to hit that no 'clean' dancer is going to escape the financial pressure even if she is top shelf talent.

    ~
    Last edited by Melonie; 09-09-2007 at 04:50 AM.

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    Actually Eric, I was trying to address that particular point in a somewhat tactful manner by referring to 'other' sources of income ... which as you point out bypass the club's cash register (thus avoiding having to pay an official club 'cut'), but which may still involve paying off the host / bouncer if the 'extras' take place inside the club.

    I would also speculate that business managers of these upscale clubs are increasingly finding themselves between a 'rock and a hard place', as a higher percentage of total dollars being spent by club customers seems to be migrating towards 'extras'. Yes the club gets 'room' money, but it does not get a cut of the 'extras' money. This is not a good situation from the selfish financial standpoint of club investors, who see their property taxes going up, their utility bills going up, their insurance costs going up, their legal fees going up etc. but who also see the club's 'cut' from non-'extras' customer spending staying the same or even declining.

    Moreover, there is no way that a club can officially set itself up to collect a cut of 'extras' money without going on record as knowing that 'extras' are taking place, plus allowing / facilitating / promoting those 'extras' taking place. Doing so would open a Pandora's Box of potential prosecutions of club management ( which are currently not possible due to plausible deniability - 'gee, officer, I had no idea what was going on back there !!!'). But charging dancers a large up-front cash stage fee does provide the club with a means of collecting some measure of 'extras' money without being specific as to the source of that money.

    Ironically, when 'extras' are tolerated by club management in clubs that use the high fixed dollar stage fee business model, the financial incentives equation for dancers quickly changes. As you have already pointed out, instead of providing a financial incentive for 'marginal' dancers to move on to other clubs with no / lower stage fees (thus supposedly raising the average appeal level of the club's remaining higher earning dancers and perpetuating the super-upscale club image), the toleration of 'extras' simply provides more incentive for 'marginal' dancers to offer more 'extras'. As club customers get used to the availability of 'extras' they come to expect more 'extras', which in turn forces higher appeal dancers who have not offered 'extras' to accept a lower earnings potential or start offering 'extras' themselves !!!

    Dredging up memories of the last major downturn in the NYC area economy (tech bust of 2000 + 9/11 attack), at that time the super upscale club(s) were not known for 'extras' and still drew in a generous customer base of high rollers, celebrities, corporate types etc. Also at that time, the 'dirty' clubs seemed to continue operating as usual. It was the 'middle of the road' clubs, which didn't have wall to wall top shelf dancers and which also didn't offer 'extras', that took the brunt of the last economic downturn. The reason that I mention this is that today it seems that even the super upscale clubs have become known for 'extras' ... which implies that when the current economic downturn really starts to hit that no 'clean' dancer is going to escape the financial pressure even if she is top shelf talent.

    ~
    As usual, you are 100 % correct on all points. I think the reason mgt. is reluctant to crack down on extras is BECAUSE they draw big-spenders i.e. "The Whales" .
    Like it or not, extras are a fact of life in N.Y.C. at most clubs as is OTC. Only a completely moronic management would even TRY to get a cut of this money.
    It's why Scores West will probably skate on the prostitution charges UNLESS someone testifies that they directly paid a % of their extras to the club and even then it's one word against another.
    Middle end clubs usually get hardest whenever there is an economic slow-down
    because the "recession-proof" keep doing their thing at PEC etc. and the other horndogs look for bargains at the low end joints.

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    Quote Originally Posted by hustlebunny View Post
    I worked there one night and went running back to my reg club...why, why would I give them that much??? It just didnt make sense to me since the hey day is gone for that club...it was empty!!!
    They just got slapped with a Federal Class Action Lawsuit from a former bartender. The gist of her complaint is that she and others worked for less than minimum wage and that mgt. double-dipped on the Diamond Dollars i.e. AFTER
    banging the custie for 20% on his C.C. they also deducted an additional 10%
    "handling fee" ( ? ) when dancers and others cashed them in. It's reported
    in today's New York Post.

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    Yep.... Ricks was the same way with the double dipping. Maybe if they cut it out, I'll go back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay12 View Post
    ^What Sophia said.
    Quote Originally Posted by yoda57us View Post
    I wish there was an "auto-like" setting that I could just have applied to all of your posts Sophia....

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    Angry Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    DUH!!!! All the 'high-end' clubs do this! And it's been going on FOREVER. When the entertainers turn in their funny money, the club takes a 10% cut. SO, Scores actually makes 30% on each dolar the customer purchases. (20% is charged when he/she purchases funny money PLUS the 10% deducted from their paycheck).

    I love you and all Eric, but the way your email reads, it's like you had no idea that this went on. And you seem to know A LOT - but did you really not know that this went on?

    At PEC, they just raised it from 10% to 13%. BULLSHIT I say.

    These clubs act as if they are STRUGGLING to get by. The way I see it (and I've been seeing it for many years) is that money is the root of all evil, and clubs will do whatever they can to extract money from both the customers and entertainers. It's completely ridiculous. I can actually get with charging the customer 20%. He/she makes the CHOICE to purchase currency. But the entertainer doesn't have the choice when getting paid, so therefore she's still penalized by getting 10-13% taken out of her earnings. Not to forget, this entertainer has also PAID to work at these clubs. And she's most likely paid a LOT.

    I am taking a break. Too frustrating.
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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    Quote Originally Posted by nychaos99 View Post
    DUH!!!! All the 'high-end' clubs do this! And it's been going on FOREVER. When the entertainers turn in their funny money, the club takes a 10% cut. SO, Scores actually makes 30% on each dolar the customer purchases. (20% is charged when he/she purchases funny money PLUS the 10% deducted from their paycheck).

    I love you and all Eric, but the way your email reads, it's like you had no idea that this went on. And you seem to know A LOT - but did you really not know that this went on?

    At PEC, they just raised it from 10% to 13%. BULLSHIT I say.

    These clubs act as if they are STRUGGLING to get by. The way I see it (and I've been seeing it for many years) is that money is the root of all evil, and clubs will do whatever they can to extract money from both the customers and entertainers. It's completely ridiculous. I can actually get with charging the customer 20%. He/she makes the CHOICE to purchase currency. But the entertainer doesn't have the choice when getting paid, so therefore she's still penalized by getting 10-13% taken out of her earnings. Not to forget, this entertainer has also PAID to work at these clubs. And she's most likely paid a LOT.

    I am taking a break. Too frustrating.
    I've known all along AND I don't know whether or not this particular suit has any real merit. I never use funny money myself because both I and the dancer get screwed afaic so cash is best for both of us.Same reason I NEVER use the ATM located inside the club because the ATM fees are a joke- as high as $20.

    Under N.Y. law there is an exception for bar and restaurant employees as far as the minimum wage is concerned. Secondly, I don't see how funny money surcharges to the custies affect the employees directly BUT there are some cases involving Chinatown Restaurants where the waiters had to kickback a % of their tips to Mgt. and where this was found to be unlawful and Mgt. had to pay
    $ millions in back pay and OVERTIME.

    The real fun is going to be in the discovery phase where the plaintiffs will get to see Scores books. Bet on Scores trying to settle. The same firm that repped Anucha Sanders in her suit vs. Isiah Thomas; the Dolans and MSG is repping the plaintiffs in this one.

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    You rock, Eric.

    I can't wait to see the showdown...however, I've been waiting for YEARS and they've hardly had a slap on the wrist.

    All I hear from the 'inside' is that Scores is being shut-down, Scores is losing their liquor license, Scores is being sued by customers, Scores is being sued by entertainers....blah blah blah. It's all bullshit. That club is going to be around for a while. And honestly, I can't figure out why or how.
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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    Quote Originally Posted by nychaos99 View Post
    You rock, Eric.

    I can't wait to see the showdown...however, I've been waiting for YEARS and they've hardly had a slap on the wrist.

    All I hear from the 'inside' is that Scores is being shut-down, Scores is losing their liquor license, Scores is being sued by customers, Scores is being sued by entertainers....blah blah blah. It's all bullshit. That club is going to be around for a while. And honestly, I can't figure out why or how.
    Scores is a PUBLICLY held corporation and they own several clubs.
    Is Scores West still open ? Afaik they are and are still serving booze BUT there are still several outstanding prosecutions for prostitution and an open SLA proceeding about revoking their liquor license.

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    Default Re: Scores East House Fees - Astronomical!!

    scores has been so dead, its killing me, but i don't have the boob job for penthouse. i guess its worth a shot anyway.

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