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Thread: i'm tired of excuses

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    God/dess Pretty_Penny's Avatar
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    Default i'm tired of excuses

    customer behavior comes up a lot in conversation at work, as well as on this board. we've had countless threads concerning men acting like assholes towards dancers in the club. i've noticed a trend in the responses. almost every time, someone will mention how the men view us as "strippers" not "real people" and/or how the club atmosphere "makes" men act out of line. i know i've said it before, but i'm a little fed up right now and i feel like mentioning it.

    no ammount of alcohol and/or nudity turns a "nice guy" into an asshole. it's mearly an EXCUSE. so, guys have a stereotype in their head of what a stripper is, and they treat us accordingly? well, that means said guy is already an asshole. normal gentlemen know full well that we are real people. you'd have to be a moron not to. i would say in 98% of these cases, the customer -knows- what we prefer him not to do, he just does not -care-. plain and simple. he is paying for it, so he feels he can do whatever he wants.. or whatever he can get away with without getting knocked out by someone. sure, they might have a stereotype in their head. i'm sure many of them do. maybe it makes it easier for them to treat us like shit because they can tell themselves we're "just strippers" but that doesn't make it "right"... and they know that. they just don't care.

    likewise

    dancer behavior comes up a lot in conversation as well...

    and i hear over and over again. "the environment turned her into a drug addict" or "the industry turned her into a hooker". whatthefuckever. stripping doesn't "turn you into" a drug addict or a whore. you make that choice. sure, it makes those options more available to you, but so what? the problem is with the dancers lack of will power and or self esteem. unless the management is tying girls down in the back and forcing coke up their noses, i don't buy it. i also don't buy the "she started hooking because she had to compete with the other girls" bullshit. am i supposed to feel bad? because i don't.

    bottom line:

    strip clubs are not magical places that transform people into hookers and assholes. it just attracts the type of people who lean toward those behaviors.

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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    stripping is 100% the only reason i started doing coke. i was VERY against it, my friend who did it was given the rule that it would never be in our apt or i would kick her out. but when i started dancing it seemed like no big deal to me. and i dont have low self esteem. i'm quite confident that if i had never started dancing i never wouldve tried coke.

  3. #3
    cameron_keys
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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    Quote Originally Posted by britt244 View Post
    stripping is 100% the only reason i started doing coke. i was VERY against it, my friend who did it was given the rule that it would never be in our apt or i would kick her out. but when i started dancing it seemed like no big deal to me. and i dont have low self esteem. i'm quite confident that if i had never started dancing i never wouldve tried coke.
    There are plenty of people who strip and dont do drugs. The club didnt force you....you still made that choice yourself.


    Penny...I agree with you 100%

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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    Quote Originally Posted by cameron_keys View Post
    There are plenty of people who strip and dont do drugs. The club didnt force you....you still made that choice yourself.


    Penny...I agree with you 100%
    i didnt say that the club forced me or that everyone does it. i'm saying if i had never been there, i never would've done it. and i can say that pretty confidently because i was against it more than ANYONE.

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    God/dess Pretty_Penny's Avatar
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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    Quote Originally Posted by britt244 View Post
    stripping is 100% the only reason i started doing coke. i was VERY against it, my friend who did it was given the rule that it would never be in our apt or i would kick her out. but when i started dancing it seemed like no big deal to me. and i dont have low self esteem. i'm quite confident that if i had never started dancing i never wouldve tried coke.

    i completely disagree. you were EXPOSED to coke by the environment of the strip club. you CHOSE to do coke on your own. i've been around coke a billion times and i've never done it. what's to say that if you had a friend who did it or were partying somewhere else you wouldn't have started?

    note: i'm not saying that makes me a better person. i'm not saying i have anything against girls with addictions past or present either.

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    Featured Member Sunshine73's Avatar
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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    I agree with you Penny.

    People have choices, and we have brains to make those choices. Yes, there are influences of the strip club, but what we choose to do is entirely up to us, not the conditions tht surround us.
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    God/dess Pretty_Penny's Avatar
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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    Quote Originally Posted by britt244 View Post
    i didnt say that the club forced me or that everyone does it. i'm saying if i had never been there, i never would've done it. and i can say that pretty confidently because i was against it more than ANYONE.
    if you were that against it, working in a strip club couldn't have "caused" you to do it. there were underlying reasons, self esteem or not, that caused you to make that choice. i don't think that simply being in an environment that exposes you to something, causes you to do it.

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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    well i was around it plenty of times before dancing and never did it. i got mad when my friends did it around me. but i'm not here to argue, you have your opinion and i have mine.

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    Featured Member hot4ablackchick's Avatar
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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    I'll have to agree with Penny. I personally do not do any drugs. I've never even been drunk, tried any drugs whatsoever, and have not smoked a cigarette since I was 13 (and never tried it again)

    I'm very liberal and really do not have a problem with drugs, I've just never gotten into it, and I really can't stand drinking alcohol, I hate the taste. In addition I have children and I like having a clear head.

    Just about EVERYONE at my club smoke, drinks, and/or does some kind of drug. To blame surroundings at the club for doing something is frankly, bullshit. Like I tell my children, doing something just because everyone else is, is probably the worst reason to do anything. Either you wanted to, were curious, wanted to fit in, were depressed, or something. Nobody just goes from VERY anti-drug to snorting coke just because they are a stripper.
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  10. #10
    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    Daaaamn right, Penny. Thanks for this post.

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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    Quote Originally Posted by hot4ablackchick View Post
    Just about EVERYONE at my club smoke, drinks, and/or does some kind of drug. To blame surroundings at the club for doing something is frankly, bullshit. Like I tell my children, doing something just because everyone else is, is probably the worst reason to do anything. Either you wanted to, were curious, wanted to fit in, were depressed, or something. Nobody just goes from VERY anti-drug to snorting coke just because they are a stripper.
    um, please dont tell me what i do or dont do. i can tell you my reasons and you cant tell me otherwise. i was very anti drug and then yes, i did it at work not to fit in (i did it with a friend of mine who i didnt even know did it) and i was not depressed and i was nothing else. and regardless of the reasoning, if i had never been in a strip club it never would have happened. nobody can tell me that that isnt true for me.

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    Featured Member iambonbon05's Avatar
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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    *claps*

    I could say the only reason I ever started doing pot was because I moved in with my friend Alina, but ultimately it was another reason. I could have just as easily said "no thanks". She gave me the opportunity but ultimately it was my choice.
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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    Thank you! I hate the stereotype that if you are a stripper you do drugs and are a whore. Dancing has made me dislike drugs even more that I already did.

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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    let me clarify: i did not mean that this is true for everyone! there are a great deal of stereotypes that i hate when it comes to dancing and it being so awful blah blah blah. i'm just saying that for me, while it was my choice, if i had never been in this environment i never would have done it. that's all.

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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    there is a myth that environment has very little to no effect on people's individual choices. this is total BS. environment is always a contributing factor, sometimes greatly, sometimes minorly. to pretend otherwise is deceitful.

    a stripclub environment is MORE conducive to certain negative behaviors than many other kinds of work environments. this does not mean those negative behaviors NEVER occur in those other environments, only that they are LESS LIKELY. which is basically true.

    if i'm paid to be a party-girl, that's more conducive to say drug use than if i'm paid to do welding. it hardly means there's no drug-addicted welders or whathaveyou.

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    God/dess Susan-Va's Avatar
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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    I have to go with Penny on this one too. I don't think that stripping is the reason anyone does drugs, drinks, does extras, whatever, but it is an environment that is a hell of a lot more tolerant of these things than any other line of work. In some clubs it's socially acceptable. I worked at one that had two dressing rooms. One where everyone did drugs and one where no one did.

    Everyone makes choices in life. I've made the choice not to do drugs, my decision. It has nothing to do with my job. Although some of the girls I've worked with could be the just say no poster child and they reaffirm my decision every time I see them.

    Britt, if I read your post right you said you did it to fit in, right? I, and I think alot of people have done stuff to fit in no matter where we are. Years ago, there was a guy I liked. He was heavy into drugs, all I ever did before this would be the occasional joint. So to fit in with him I tried coke and, my all time favorite moment (insert sarcasm here) sitting in his apartment smoking crack with him and Misty, the transvestite prostitute. *I did both of those just once and now I look back and laugh about how stupid I was.*

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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    Very interesting post, I have to put my input into this. Actually me, my sister and my cousin got in a conversation a couple of years ago very similar to this one and my sister was saying some things me and my cousin were both very much disagreeing with. First, my sister said any woman that starts dancing, it doesn't matter if she was an angel before she started dancing, that more than likely she is either going to turn into a slut or get on drugs, me and my cousin, which is a male, were like no, not true, my sister has had dancer friends that were on drugs or were slutty in her past and just because they were (I'll say where I grew up there was only like 1 strip club near by and most of the girls that were around and worked there and who she hung around during that time were the more trashy people, this was years ago) dancers, so that is where she got it from I guess because that club, yes, had a lot of drugs and girls that were trashy in it, but it's a big world and all clubs are not that way. She said 90% of girls are going to get some kind of addiction because of the strip club, and me and my cousin both said no, its the dancers own will power to do the drugs or say no, it doesn't matter if it's at a friends house or at a club or where ever it is, the "club" does not "cause" any addiction on anyone, the person causes it their self by doing it.

    I met a girl one night at a club, she came up to me and we had a little conversation, other clubs got brought up and I asked about a certain club that she said she had been to that I hadn't, she said all it was was a drug and whore house and she was forced into doing coke and got addicted, she actually said the other dancers made her do the drugs, I just listened to her talk and didn't say anything, but the whole time I was thinking that this girl is blaming the club and other dancers for her giving in to trying the coke, yea they had a part in her starting it by them having it, of course I mean if you're never around something or know about it then you're not going to try it, but in the end it is her fault for actually doing it, no one "made" her do it, i'm sure they didn't tie her down and force it up her nose.

    Just like me, when I started dancing and drinking heavily, I put the addiction on myself for going into work and drinking everyday, i'm not going to blame the club or other dancers for something I put on myself by doing it and not stopping, but yes if I wouldn't have ever started dancing then I probably wouldn't have started drinking that way, but still, it's not the clubs fault, it's my fault for doing it. I think it's wrong for the people who aren't dancers and the customers who stereotype and say every dancer is addicted to drugs or something and is a big slut, because out of the places I have worked, most girls are just dancing for a job and that's it, no drugs or anything involved. Yes there are the girls that are on drugs or something, but I say it's the other way around 90% no drugs, regular people, 10% that cause the stereotype.

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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    Quote Originally Posted by Susan-Va View Post
    Britt, if I read your post right you said you did it to fit in, right? I, and I think alot of people have done stuff to fit in no matter where we are. Years ago, there was a guy I liked. He was heavy into drugs, all I ever did before this would be the occasional joint. So to fit in with him I tried coke and, my all time favorite moment (insert sarcasm here) sitting in his apartment smoking crack with him and Misty, the transvestite prostitute. *I did both of those just once and now I look back and laugh about how stupid I was.*
    no, i said i didnt. its kind of worded funny, haha. "i did it not to fit in and i wasn't depressed..." i shouldve said that better, its all jumbled! i did it just to simply do it. there was no reason other than 'hey, why not?' which i do firmly believe wouldn't have been my attitude if i wasn't dancing. it was like i was in a totally different setting where, as a girl i know now puts it, nothing is real. we provide a fantasy, so nothing that happens, interactions, actions, etc, in the club, can seem like they aren't real outside. that's the way i look at it. it seemed like no biggie simply because of everything else around me. does that make sense?

    now, there are other things that i would never ever say had to do with working. drinking, for example. if it hadn't been at work it would've been outside of work. but coke.. that one i'm standing firm on.

  19. #19
    cameron_keys
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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    Quote Originally Posted by britt244 View Post
    now, there are other things that i would never ever say had to do with working. drinking, for example. if it hadn't been at work it would've been outside of work. but coke.. that one i'm standing firm on.
    It may have happened because of that..but it was still your choice. You could have easily chosen NOT to do it. So to blame it on the club is no excuse. YOU were suseptable to the environment....being a stripper wasnt the REASON you did coke. Slight but important differance.

    I realize that environment was a factor...you got swept up in the surrealness of the club. But it was still your responsibility to do it or not do it.

    I've done things I prob never would have done if I hadnt been a stripper...but it was still MY choice. I accept that I was responsible for the choices I made and I dont blame the profession for it. My brain didnt fall out of my ass when my clothes came off....I knew what I was doing.

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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    I'm with Miabella on this...I just think that you can't discount the environment. I've never done coke, but I've seen it literally (no pun intended) right in front of my nose at work. I do think you're more likely to do something in certain situations, rather than others. A person who does a line because it's put in front of her face every night would not necessarily do drugs in every situation. It's not black or white.

    To turn it around, I was never sexually assaulted before I started dancing. I guess sometimes I try not to think that a guy forcing his hands between my legs at work (it's happened at least two or three times) isn't 'really' sexual assault, but it damn well is. They did it forcibly and without my consent. It's an evil that is absolutely brought on by the environment. Yeah, they were assholes. But those same assholes would not have done that to me standing in line at the bank.

    I study ethics, and I do believe in the value of character. But I also realize that we can't always see the forest from the trees. It's easy to say "this would never happen to a good person", but psych tests show that when the chips are down, even people like seminary students can do some pretty horrible things. Circumstances really pave the way for certain behaviours. I do think we have free will, but I have little faith in the strength of that will.

    Just one last example: A woman driving her car looks down for a second at her phone and then tragically hits a little kid running out onto the street. Horrible. Condemnable too. But she wouldn't have felt nearly so guilty about driving recklessly if she hadn't hit the kid. You know what I mean? Circumstances...

    I think if you read many, many cases of moral reasoning, it's harder to see things in very set terms. Not that you can disprove such a standpoint either. But we have to agree that some people in some situations really have their moral buttons pushed a lot harder than others. Like soldiers in Nazi Germany. They did horrible things, most of them. Things which everyone rightly condemned them for. But I mean, how many people were in that situation? To be tested in that way. It's an extreme example of the same idea.

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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    Quote Originally Posted by cameron_keys View Post
    It may have happened because of that..but it was still your choice. You could have easily chosen NOT to do it. So to blame it on the club is no excuse. YOU were suseptable to the environment....being a stripper wasnt the REASON you did coke. Slight but important differance.

    I realize that environment was a factor...you got swept up in the surrealness of the club. But it was still your responsibility to do it or not do it.

    I've done things I prob never would have done if I hadnt been a stripper...but it was still MY choice. I accept that I was responsible for the choices I made and I dont blame the profession for it. My brain didnt fall out of my ass when my clothes came off....I knew what I was doing.


    i said it was my choice. but i CHOSE it because of the club and my surroundings. i swear it makes sense to me, maybe i'm not saying it right or something? haha.. but really, can't that make sense? a person chooses to do things based on other things. it isnt like we go through life making blind choices and those choices would be the same no matter what other things are happening around us.

    like, you may have chosen NOT to do drugs because of things around you. i'm not saying that's why, just an example. and in the same respect, i chose to try them because of my environment. in a sense, if i wasnt a stripper i wouldnt have been in that environment, so that makes stripping the reason i tried coke.

    p.s. i have a brain. you don't have to be stupid to do drugs. smart people do stupid things sometimes.

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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    I definitely agree that men who are assholes to strippers are just plain assholes to begin with. No decent guy is good all the time except when he's at the strip club. Some just hide their douchebaggery well most of the time, and it comes out when they are at the club.

  23. #23
    Alaska
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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    But Britt--like you said: you chose it. It ends there...not "I chose it BECAUSE or they MADE me choose it." It's normal to try to justify making a stupid choice. But you did, that's what it boils down to.

    And hey. I'm not so high n mighty as to say it's a "stupid choice" period. I've done it before, and had fun, and didn't do it again later, not addicted, etc. But I always try to ask myself "will I regret this action." Sometimes you don't know, but that's how you learn, and it's okay. I see where yr coming from and how you think the way you do, but yr saying I chose it BECAUSE....yea. Like I said, you did it, you chose it, bottom line. Oh well!

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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    ^ i don't agree though. the thread started out with dancing not being the reason for bad behaviors. but there IS a reason. you can't say the reason doesn't matter.

  25. #25
    AlexxaHex
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    Default Re: i'm tired of excuses

    JEsus - can we please move on from this semantics BS?

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