sorry for defending my opinion.





sorry for defending my opinion.
Eh. I still think you're (anybody's) the reason, not the environment. You also chose to work in an environment where you knew damn well you'd have a %500 chance of being exposed to stuff you normally wouldn't it.
And absolutely, as far as the men. Everyone's got a nasty side to them, but they are weak for using the environment as an excuse to "just get carried away." Plain and simple, they think it's okay, or they can forgive themselves, because they see us as Stripper Bitches. But that's alright--I go into work knowing that, and make my $$. That's a huge part of taking the good with the bad.
I wouldn't say it's semantics.
People may not think her opinion is valid, but it's a valid opinion bc it's her opinion about the thread. (Now THERE'S sematics!)





i'm not saying environment isn't a factor. that was never a statement i made. only that being in the environment alone does not cause a person to make those choices.
if dancing in a strip club was 100% of the reason strippers did coke (or prostitution or whatever else), every single one of us would be an addict/whore. there are other factors that cause some of us to do it and some of us not too.





well, on the other hand, that's kinda a nature vs nurture thing. ya know? 2 people can be in the same exact situation and do different things. i dunno, i'm just speaking from my own personal experience and using my own personal beliefs. i can't speak for anyone else.
Stripping, as far as for girls, is simply an enabler. It doesn't "turn you into" anything, but it enables you to continue a bad habit, whether that's drug addiction, alcoholism, lack of fiscal responsibility, inability to plan a future for yourself, etc. I think almost all of us are guilty of letting the convenience of the industry "enable" some vice of ours, but it certainly didn't "make us" do anything.
That being said, I also think it's very hard to not allow stripping to change you as a person. We have to be conscientious to not allow the fakeness of our work personas to spill into our lives outside of the club.





i agree. doing anything changes a person. of course stripping changes us in some way or another. working with the disabled changed me... so did working retail in the mall during christmas.
also, i think for some people it's not the persona that's a problem. for instance, i don't have a "work persona". not that there's anything wrong with having one. my biggest challange is not letting asshole customers make me more judgemental and bitter in my every day life.
Good point. What I should have said was, "I think it's hard to not let stripping affect us as people in a negative way." Personally, I know I've become a much more confident and assertive person thanks to this industry, but I also concede that came at a loss to other facets of my personality. Sometimes I see how much less genuine, introspective, and caring I've become; I see myself getting obsessed with the money and worrying about "wasting time" with friends or family when I could be maximizing my income at work, and, frankly, it saddens and scares the shit out of me.





I agree it's not 100% the reason. Again, I've never done coke myself, and there's got to be a reason for that.
But what we have to acknowledge is that there are many women who do drugs after becoming dancers, who would not have done drugs otherwise. They may have always had that potential...I think there are plenty of people in the world with potential to do things like cocaine or whatever, but the opportunity doesn't present itself so easily as it does for someone swimming in the stuff.
The same for men. Is a man an asshole if he's an asshole in the club? Yes, of course. But how many men have that asshat potential that they only ever explore once inside a strip club. I'm inclined to think there are a few.
In this way, the environment is a very big factor. It's kind of like my stance on gun control, but I know how popular that is, so I'll just stop talking with that.
I think, to Britt especially, what I want to say is that I don't judge a dancer who succumbs to the habits of her peers as an especially weak person. There are so many people who simply don't get the chance to indulge bad habits the way we can.
I agree Penny. Dancing or becoming a stripper is not the reason a girl would do drugs.
If I go into the sun, I could get cancer. Right? Did I give myself cancer? Did I put the cancer in my body? Or was it from the sun?
Now, if I go into a club I could do drugs. But the club didn't put the drugs in my body. I did. I gave myself the drug.
Not sure if that was the right analogy (?) but it's what popped into my head. So you may not have been presented with drugs nearly a s often in another line of work as you would be when you are a stripper. True fact. But the other fact is that YOU (not anyone specific here, K?) said yes. You reached out, grabbed the drug and put it inside you.
Saying a club makes a person be deviant is like saying being on a farm will make a vegetarian want meat. Just because you are there and surrounded by it all you don't have to want it.
IMO, the bottom line is that if you have the potential in you, at some point it will come out, regardless of where you are. And if you put yourself in a place where the potential is encouraged, then it will come out even sooner.
Im with Penny on this one too.
In this job you HAVE to have coping skills and have your head screwed on right.. know why your there and what you want. Otherwise it will just do your head in, I have just learned that recently.
Britt - I understand where you are coming from but you cant blame stripping. If it wasnt stripping you would have eventually ended up at some party doing a couple lines of coke anyway... stripping is not 100% to blame.
Like a lot of people have already said on this thread... It all comes down to CHOICE.
You know what they say about redheads, don't you?





thank you
please. please. please. stop telling me what i would have done. you do not know me and i am trying really hard not to let my anger from other threads carry over here. you cannot say that i absolutely would have. so don't. that is VERY offensive to me.





Many nice men come into the club and behave like gentlemen but make no mistake we are still strippers to them. I have had many conversations with nice men and they will make some innocent comment about me being intelligent or articulate and then say "why are you here?" or "you are too good for this".
They simply cannot seem to view us in any other way other than make value judgments about what we do for work.
I dont think this makes them bad men, the way that they think is a product of society. I used to think the same things about strippers before I went into a club amd before I became one myself.
As for dancers behaviour yes there is a lot of exposure to drugs in this industry but of course it still is a personal choice. However, some people will eventually give into temptation if it's in front of them ALL THE TIME. It may come to seem like the norm to them so that when they eventually do it it doesn't seem so bad.
I haven't changed my stance on drugs since dancing, in fact I am very ignorant about drugs TBH. But at the same time the nightclubs surrounding my club are probably more overrun with drugs than any of the strip clubs and more of the girls visiting those nightclubs are prob taking drugs than there are in the club.
There are many stereotypes about the industry that I work in. Sometimes they can be true but human beings are very diverse creatures and cannot be pigeon-holed into one category.
Some of the most effortlessly beautiful, kind, intelligent, successful, motivated, driven and ridiculously hilarious women that I have ever met have been dancers. I've met the best friends that I've ever had in this industry.
Sorry Britt that but that was my opinion on the subject that you posted up there!
You know what they say about redheads, don't you?





^ you can say your opinion is that i would have done it. what you can't say is that i WOULD have done it. leaving out the "my opinion" part gives it a totally different meaning, one that i have asked repeatedly for people to stop saying. no one can tell me what i would have done. and that is plain and simple. people who don't know me don't get to make that call. i'm sorry.
Some factors need consideration before we decide what is free will and what is forced will. I have seen mileage go way, way up in many clubs and to compete, dancers had to provide more contact. As I have no ties, I can move to another city, no problem. (When contact goes up in one club, it goes up in all clubs with in a 20 mile radius. Once an area is tainted, I vacate.)
What about a dancer who is tied to children and family? What if she has a mortgage? She can not pack up and leave so easily. What do girls usually do in this situation? Stay and keep up with what other girls are doing.
If you lived on an Amish farm, I don't think you'd have done coke.
I don't do drugs. I won't do drugs. But do you know how tempted I am? My god. Because I am such a princess about this, I have been offered THOUSANDS just to do a line. It is hard to turn it down.
The reason I don't do drugs is that everyday I see what happens to girls who get hooked on them. Many girls who take drugs do so to numb themselves from the shit they put up with. I don't think they should dance if they can't do it sober.
I don't drink either. But at times, I am pressured to take a shot and I cave. Most of the alcohol I order goes down the sink. When I am put on the spot and a 3-hour VIP is riding on this action for me and a few other girls, I choose not to be the pooper and take one for the team.
Peer pressure sucks.
Whoah, thousands to do a line? I know drugs r bad, mmmkay but...I can't see being addicted or feeling that lousy after one single line, wow! I wish that was me.
It is still a choice. I have family and a mortgage...and mialage went through the roof here years ago. I did not keep up. There are other options
Obviously environment is a factor. Many people may not have ever done certain things if they had never stepped into a club. Its prevalent and most of all..accepted.
But at the end of the day...the club didnt FORCE anyone to do anything. It is still each persons choice to do whatever they do. To put responsibility on a club instead of taking responsibility for your own actions is a cop out.
Like I said before...I didnt lose my brain when I started stripping..I didnt become a zombie with no control over my own actions and thoughts. Whatever I've done or not done ...as a dancer or a customer..I did. It was MY choice.





i have a question. remember that thread about how has dancing changed you, and everyone listed positive things? if dancing can lead to positive changes, why is it so hard to comprehend that it could lead to negative changes?
for example.. cameron, you've said dancing has given you a more positive body image. tons of girls have said it gives them confidence, and has made a handful of other personality changes. why can the positive things be attributed to dancing, yet the negative can't?
I understand that they have a choice. I also understand why they cave. They usually have kids to feed and they scrape by. For some, stripping dirty is the more lucrative option. They could get a job at the mall and a gov't check, but earning $300/shift seems more appealing. Would I choose it? Probably not. Do I tolerate extras in my club? No.
ETA: At one club where I consistently did well, the manager pulled me aside and told me that my dances were "too clean". In another club, I have been booted out of VIP rooms by waitstaff/managers because I don't keep up with the mileage. These clubs were outright telling me to break my boundaries.
Last edited by StrayStripper; 09-17-2007 at 05:34 PM.
Because we are talking about things you can physically control. Being a dickhead, being a hooker, doing drugs. You can physically control them.
YOU(general you..nobody in particular) CHOSE to grab the dancers ass and tell her shes fat, YOU chose to put the coke up your nose, YOU chose to allow the guy to fuck you in the champagne room.
Dont get me wrong...there ARE reasons and I totally understand why people make the choices they do. But they are still choices....not ways your attitude has been shaped. Does that make sense?
I've done things I NEVER would have done if I hadnt been a stripper. Some I'm proud of, some I'm not. But they were still my choices.
For instance..I never would have done porn if I hadnt been a stripper. The thought never even would have entered my head. Is the club or stipping to "blame" for me doing porn? Of course not. It was still MY choice.
And there are negative things I attribute to the club. I'm a lot more jaded now for instance. I'm quicker to be a bitch because I"m less tolerant of assholes.





^ that does make sense. so when i say that i never would've done coke if i was never a stripper, why won't anybody let that go and accept it?you say you never would've done porn if you weren't a stripper. i never would've done coke. it was my choice and i don't blame the club. but i did do it because i was a stripper. i could edit what you said about it being your choice but you still never wouldve done porn, and just fill in 'done coke' and the same is true for me.
I cant speak for everyone....but the point of this thread was not to make excuses...which it sounded like you were doing. Thats why people jumped.
I believe you wouldnt have done it if you hadnt been a stripper. But that isnt an excuse...you know? Maybe your point just wasnt meant for this particular thread...
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