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Thread: when the pursuit of justice is blocked by legalities

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    Veteran Member Ferret's Avatar
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    Default when the pursuit of justice is blocked by legalities

    The posted link is to KETV news in Omaha Nebraska. The storyline is about a frivoulous lawsuit brought before the court by a state senator in Nebraska. In my opinion the far more important news on that page is the video of a woman, Tory Bowen, who is being barred by a court order to not use certain words during a trial where she is claiming rape. I believe her.

    Meanwhile, for some reason the idiot state senator is flying to the side of the judge who issued the court order. As I recall, frivoulous lawsuits are a punishable offense. I hope the Nebraska courts slap a fine on him for (1) trying to make light of this woman's claim and (2) for clogging the court system with his BS.

    http://www.ketv.com/news/14133442/detail.html

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: when the pursuit of justice is blocked by legalities

    Well... there are all sorts of words that you wouldn't be allowed to say in a courtroom, if you think about it. I don't think it is an issue of freedom of speech - you don't really have freedom of speech in a courtroom. You can be compelled to speak as a witness, you can be compelled to speak on certain subject, and you can be compelled to not speak on certain subjects.

    I think there is a bigger problem with obscuring the nature of her testimony. Like - the word "sex" implies, in my opinion, consensual intercourse. It is not a "neutral" term, which is how the judge wants to treat it. Barring words like "victim" - I can get behind that a little more. And of course, arguing that saying that she was raped is a legal conclusion is a bit of an absurdity - I mean her consent and lack thereof is what she is there to testify to. She is MEANT to say that it was unconsensual and an assault. That is her whole role. "I did not consent to this contact." Trying to make her... not say that is qualitatively changing her testimony. I mean, imagine a physical assault in which the complaining witness or the victim was prohibited from using the language that indicated it was not a consensual force? Or in a theft where the complaining witness was prohibited from saying that the object was taken without right? I mean, who should testify to the complaining witness's consent, then? I mean, considering that consent is necessary element?
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    Veteran Member Ferret's Avatar
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    Default Re: when the pursuit of justice is blocked by legalities

    You make several good arguments Jenny. Thanks for chiming in; I needed a little feedback.

    For me that some words are not neutral was a forgotten point. I tried to test the concept against my own self conscience and arrived at "the word 'sex' does seem to carry an implied concentual force to it."

    It occurs to me the court is trying to sterilize the event for the sake of the accused so that a juror is not swayed by the implication brought on by certain words but rather by the presented facts. As far as I am concerned, I'd rather she be allowed to say exactly what she thinks and in the way she thinks it and that she not be forced to couch statements in a way that is molded by court orders lest the trial be called a mistrial.

    Rape is applied forcibly and against the will of a person. I believe her. I watched the video of her explanation and I simply believe her. She is not a person with a separate agenda. She is not after some huge financial reward. She is a woman who was penetrated forcibly and against her will and who with great courage is exposing herself to the world.

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    God/dess Jenny's Avatar
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    Default Re: when the pursuit of justice is blocked by legalities

    I don't really see this as an issue of whether or not I believe her. I'm unsure about the ban of words like "victim" - but I can live with it because when she is REFERRED TO as a victim, the court may be lending her credence - and as a witness, her testimony and credibility should be construed by the jury. I don't think you can legitimately claim that calling her a "victim" is a "legal conclusion" - one can be a "victim" without there being a criminal. Similarly, I think a lot of what I'm reading - that the jury's job is to decide whether or not a rape was committed is not EXACTLY true as applied to these facts. It is their job to determine whether it can be determined beyond a reasonable doubt that the rape (or sexual assault) took place. Point being - the witness's credibility as to whether or not she has been raped is one of the things that the jury has to determine. Prohibiting her from presenting it as a fact is equivalent (in some ways) to prohibiting a defendant or the accused from characterizing it as consensual.
    I have taught that the sky in all its zones is mortal and its substance was formed by a process of birth

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