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Thread: Foreclosure homes?

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    God/dess whirlerz's Avatar
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    Default Foreclosure homes?

    I think, you have to buy sight unseen/no home inspection? You have to have 'up to code' by a certain amount of time? I'm supposed to go to a free seminar coming up.


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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    I would not advise foreclosure homes...but pre-foreclosure homes. Even better are homes in which the owners are willing to short sale.

    If you want more info, email me.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    ^^^ if you're talking about foreclosed properties being sold at auction, typically it is possible to arrange a tour/inspection prior to the date of the auction by contacting the financial institution conducting the auction.

    However, be aware that the financial institutions and their 'silent partners' already know everything there is to know about the true condition and true value of the property. One of these 'silent partners' will undoubtedly be present at the auction bidding against you. Once the 'silent partner' stops bidding, you have already paid too much !

    Participating in auctions also means being able to 'clear' the auction sale by the end of the day / week. This means there will be no opportunity to seek financing for the foreclosed property until AFTER you have bought it. Basically you need to walk into the auction with a bank letter of credit or enough 'cash' in your pocket to cover the full amount purchase price you have bid for the auctioned property. You can definitely arrange a mortgage after the fact in order to 'extract' 80% of your cash though - but you're not going to be able to buy an auctioned property with only 20% down in the vast majority of auction circumstances.


    I agree that for individuals who are not 'rich', approaching banks for 'pre-foreclosure' purchasing opportunities is probably a preferred angle to pursue. In this way the financial institution avoids foreclosure and auction costs, the financial institution gets to write a new mortgage, the current property owner avoids foreclosure / bankruptcy proceedings in exchange for accepting a large paper loss etc.

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    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    Short sales are really hard to come "buy." Banks usually want people to be in bankruptcy before they will even consider it - I mean, why would they voluntarily take the financial lumps of a short sale?

    There may be ringers in auctions - but it hasn't helped in a lot of auctions where the properties were simply taken off the block because the reserve price wasn't met.

    Buying a home off auction is just as risky as buying an over-priced home through normal channels.

    Pre-foreclosure is the best bet - but many people "will figure something out" until the Sheriff appears with their piece of paper - IOW they are in denial until it is to late.

    There is a lot of property out there that does not match the income (or ability to pay) in it's area.

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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol
    Short sales are really hard to come "buy." Banks usually want people to be in bankruptcy before they will even consider it - I mean, why would they voluntarily take the financial lumps of a short sale?
    ^ You are wrong. We have completed all of the short sales that we have started. To date, we've done 15 short sales and not one bank said, "Only if the borrower files bankruptcy".

    That is just not the way it happens. Once they know that their borrowers are NOT going to pay the mortgage, they want out of the house as soon as possible. With the borrowers filing bankruptcy, they get an automatic "free rent" stay for the length of the bankruptcy (costing the bank lots of money in lost mortgage principal and interest). Then the bank has to go through with legal proceedings to foreclose on the property...which can take another 6-9 months (depending on the state you live in...sometimes up to a year)...pay the money for the lawyers...pay the money for the auction...only to go to auction and MAYBE sell the home. If they don't sell the home, then they have to pay to have the home listed...they have to pay for realtor costs...lost principal and interest, still...AND closing costs. So losing $60,000 now or $95,000 later...you'll see why Short Sales (although time consuming and difficult) are a better option than foreclosure sales.

    With a short sale, the bank KNOWS that there is someone who will for sure buy the house (you show proof of ability to pay CASH for a house and they will practically lick the house clean for you themselves) at a lesser rate, they will jump at the chance to lose upwards of $60,000 just to get out of the house and take the "foreclosure" off of their books (yeah, they lose money, but they don't...it's kind of complicated, but it's true). We bought one house that has a market value of $140,000 for $60,000. It's rare you get a house for "that cheap", but the cards were right. It is possible...

  6. #6
    BrunetteGoddess
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deogol View Post
    Short sales are really hard to come "buy." Banks usually want people to be in bankruptcy before they will even consider it - I mean, why would they voluntarily take the financial lumps of a short sale?

    There may be ringers in auctions - but it hasn't helped in a lot of auctions where the properties were simply taken off the block because the reserve price wasn't met.

    Buying a home off auction is just as risky as buying an over-priced home through normal channels.

    Pre-foreclosure is the best bet - but many people "will figure something out" until the Sheriff appears with their piece of paper - IOW they are in denial until it is to late.

    There is a lot of property out there that does not match the income (or ability to pay) in it's area.
    Not true. Our mortgage company was willing to do a short sale on our AZ house before we even filed BK because it had been months since we had been able to pay and they decided they'd rather try to get any money rather than no money. (unfortunately we still couldn't sell it because we were upside down)

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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrunetteGoddess View Post
    Not true. Our mortgage company was willing to do a short sale on our AZ house before we even filed BK because it had been months since we had been able to pay and they decided they'd rather try to get any money rather than no money. (unfortunately we still couldn't sell it because we were upside down)
    This doesn't make sense...you weren't able to short-sell your house because you were upside down?? That's when the short-sales work the best. Did I misunderstand something you wrote?

  8. #8
    BrunetteGoddess
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    Then that was the wrong wording. What I meant was, even when we lowered the price severely and offered short sale, it still didn't sell because it was still overpriced. (which we couldn't do anything about because we owed more on it then it was worth.)

    But basically I just wanted to chime in and confirm that short sales are allowed without BKs

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    ^^^ so you're saying that you CHOSE not to accept a short sale opportunity because the price offered was still less than the outstanding balance of your mortgage, and you had no other assets to throw into the mix to cover the equity shortfall ?

  10. #10
    BrunetteGoddess
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    Well not exactly chose. Nobody was interested in paying anything when they could get a new home cheaper than our 3 yr old home.

    And no, no assets.

  11. #11
    God/dess Deogol's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    I stand corrected. My how things change.

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    God/dess britneyireland's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    I had never heard of a short sale before last week. My thought was "yeah...,must be really hard to find someone who's willing to do that" Then I go to get the mail, started chatting with a neighbor....who is trying to short sell his house b/c he cashed out too much equity. Ditto for the people across the street and 3 houses down! Three on my block!
    Rebecca Avalon







  13. #13
    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    ^^^ the real estate 'crystal ball gazers' are predicting that, before all is said and done, 3-4% of ALL current homeowners on a nationwide basis could wind up being renters ! Of course where 'subprime' borrowers with ARM's are concerned, and where real estate bubbles popping in particular areas has/will cause large reductions in market value of houses, the percentage of people eventually losing their homes could be much higher.

    These scary numbers are the reason that politicians are already proposing state tax money funded subsidized refi programs, in the hope that by injecting some subsidy money now they can limit the future percentage of bankruptcies / foreclosures, and in doing so limit the state's future costs of providing social welfare benefits / health care benefits / subsidized rental housing etc. to as many bankrupt people.

    Circling back on topic, as a result of the above, my biggest fears for anyone considering investing in 'bargain' real estate right now are that

    A. we haven't yet gotten even a glimpse of the eventual 'bottom' which will occur in real estate market prices 18-24 months from now. For a fact more ARM's are due to reset over the next 6 months than have already reset over the course of the last 2-3 years. As monthly payments skyrocket for another 2-3 million homeowners over the next 6 months, they will first cover their budget shortfall by running up credit card balances. Once maxxed out on credit cards, they will then cover their shortfall by liquidating investments. When those assets are exhausted they will then start the delinquency clock on late mortgage payments. End result of this process is a rash of bankruptcies 18-24 months down the road. Going along with those bankruptcies will be a rash of 'distressed sales', foreclosures and auction sales etc. which are likely to further depress market prices of real estate.

    B. American homeowners really have no conception of how high real estate property taxes might increase. States and cities are going to have creditworthiness problems right along with private borrowers as their income and cap gains tax revenues decline. At the same time, their costs of providing social welfare benefits / health care etc. will rise. Throw in steadily rising costs for civil service employee benefits, repair of infrastructure at 'prevailing wage' contractor rates. Bottom line seems to be that increasing sales tax rates is politically unacceptable since it 'unfairly' burdens the poor. Bottom line seems to be that increasing income tax rates is economically unacceptable since it provides a strong incentive for the most valuable / productive taxpaying citizens and businesses to relocate out of the city / state. That leaves increasing property taxes as the primary means of covering future revenue shortfalls for local gov'ts. Thus housing 'bargain hunters' should be aware that their property taxes may double or triple within a period of a very few years.
    Last edited by Melonie; 09-23-2007 at 02:53 AM.

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    Featured Member scorpio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    I am now opening my offers at .50 on the dollar with short sales, and the banks end up accepting at somewhere around .60 or so. One I'm working on now has 1.1 Million in mortgages-my offer: 600K

  15. #15
    AudreyLeigh
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    Sorry if someone mentioned this BUT: Another problem with foreclosures. CHECK THE TITLE.

    You may be getting this great deal on the house - say you get a $250K house for $180K youre like this is great. Then you own it and find out that 3 years ago the people had taken a 2nd out on it for $150K equity loan on it when market was good. They now defaulted on both. Loan #1 got the house and sold it to you but #2 still has rights to the house when that loan defaulted.

    Now you have a 2nd on a house that you just got a "great deal" on. Therefor you just bought a $250K house for $330K. Ouch.

    My dad says hes seen this happen. Hell look at a house and think damn thats a great deal and then find out it has a 2nd on it thats not getting covered in the foreclosure sale.

    ***Maybe someone can explain this better than me. It sounds good in my head but not on paper***

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    ^^^ normally this would go without saying, but in today's 'head over heels in debt' world it is an absolute necessity not only to check out the property itself, but also the property's title, and all of the current 'owner's financial obligations where the property is encumbered as collateral.

    am now opening my offers at .50 on the dollar with short sales, and the banks end up accepting at somewhere around .60 or so. One I'm working on now has 1.1 Million in mortgages-my offer: 600K
    yup, it's getting scary out there when million dollar houses are being 'dumped' at 1/2 price !

  17. #17
    AudreyLeigh
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    Good for those of us who have been priced out of the market.

    My guy and I fell in love with some new builds. Last March they were $389. I went there about 3 weeks ago and theyre now $333 and were going to sit and watch the prices drop and drop and buy when the market is low.

    Heres the house: I want the Monterey style with the balcony off the loft that way we dont have to go all the way downstairs to go outside to smoke.

    Its going to be MINE ALL MINE!!! I love the lofts - my daughter will have her own little livingroom. It just sucks that we have to keep renting but in the end well save money by renting and waiting rather than buying in a confused market and being upside down for a while...

    OMG I could go on for hours... This is the first time Ive ever truly been in love.

  18. #18
    Featured Member scorpio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    Quote Originally Posted by AudreyLeigh View Post
    Sorry if someone mentioned this BUT: Another problem with foreclosures. CHECK THE TITLE.

    You may be getting this great deal on the house - say you get a $250K house for $180K youre like this is great. Then you own it and find out that 3 years ago the people had taken a 2nd out on it for $150K equity loan on it when market was good. They now defaulted on both. Loan #1 got the house and sold it to you but #2 still has rights to the house when that loan defaulted.

    Now you have a 2nd on a house that you just got a "great deal" on. Therefor you just bought a $250K house for $330K. Ouch.

    My dad says hes seen this happen. Hell look at a house and think damn thats a great deal and then find out it has a 2nd on it thats not getting covered in the foreclosure sale.

    ***Maybe someone can explain this better than me. It sounds good in my head but not on paper***
    Well duh! You can't even buy a house without title, so anyone with half a brain, or an attorney can look at the title. BTW, when a property is sold, liens are not transfered.

  19. #19
    Featured Member Vamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    I have said this before and I will say it again ....

    Each state and forclosure court order is differant. Here is the basics ...

    http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...nk&cd=15&gl=us

    Lien Holders Must Get In Line for Payment
    by M. Anthony Carr


    A title search is one of the most important activities of the real estate transaction. Without the ability to convey title, a property owner cannot sell his or her home and a buyer would not want to take possession without this most basic exercise.

    "Title" is the right to own land. Thus a title or settlement company conducts searches at the courthouse to determine if one owner has a "clear" title so that they can pass the property over to another owner. If a title has liens or judgments against it, then it creates a "cloudy title" and that's not a good thing, unless the liens are the most common sort, such as a mortgage.

    Liens are "a charge or claim against a person's property, made to enforce the payment of money," according to my old principles of real estate text book, "Modern Real Estate Practice," published by Dearborn Real Estate Education. These liens are broken down into two major groups: voluntary (you actually created the lien intentionally, like a mortgage) and involuntary (it was forced on you, like taxes or a creditor's lien seeking payment).

    Beginning investors need to be careful that when they go to the courthouse steps to bid on a property, that when they "win" they haven't just purchased a bunch of liens, which are attached to the property and convey with the property. Keeping in mind that if someone has allowed their house to go to foreclosure, then they've had financial problems and that means they could have had liens placed on the property from vendors seeking payment.

    As mentioned above, mortgage companies place liens on the property for the mortgage amount. Other liens could be placed on the property for taxes, fees outstanding to contractors (mechanics lien), and even homeowners association dues. You may even find liens for utility companies and local creditors.

    When a house goes to foreclosure, the lien holders must get in line for payment. The first one with a hand out is the government for taxes. This lien is the first in priority, even though the general rule is "first-come, first-served." All other lien holders better hope they placed a lien on the property early on.

    For example: Mr. Smythe is ordered to go to foreclosure on his home and is able to receive $275,000. He has a tax lien for $5,000 the current year, a first trust mortgage from 1998 for $125,000, a judgment lien from a creditor for $100,000 from 2003, and a mechanics lien for work done by a contractor on his deck for $20,000 from 2002.

    The order of payoff would be as such:


    Taxes: $5,000

    1st Trust: $125,000

    Mechanics lien: $20,000

    Judgment lien from creditor: $100,000

    Mr. Smythe: $25,000
    The seller receives the balance of the proceeds (and that's assuming the creditors have not sued him for the cost of the foreclosure or any fees they've incurred that they are allowed to because of the foreclosure).

    If Mr. Smythe goes to foreclosure in a down market and only receives $200,000, the roll out of the proceeds may look like this:


    Taxes: $5,000

    1st Trust: $125,000

    Mechanics Lien: $20,000

    2nd Trust: $50,000

    Mr. Smythe: $0
    In many foreclosure cases, the mortgage company will pay the taxes just so they can get first in line for their own money. The only other way a creditor can move ahead in the line may be through a "subordination agreement" between them and another lien holder to change the priority (you might say these are also considered a "fat chance" agreement or "snow ball's chance" agreements). Not too many companies are willing to subordinate to other creditors if they don't have to.

    If you find yourself in a must-sell situation, it's best to let your agent know immediately that you might have liens on your property -- she'll find out about it eventually during the title search. For those facing foreclosure, you may have creditors judgment liens on your house and not even know it. The only way to find out about them is to visit the courthouse and look at your records. Obviously, the only way to remove the liens is to pay them off.


    It is decided by the courts and mortgage holder the terms of the purchase of a foreclosure. Each state is differant as well as each foreclosure. To say they are just lost is simplistic and not the whole picture.
    Nature knows no indecencies; man invents them. ~ Mark Twain


  20. #20
    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    Very, very few courts will not allow a foreclosure go through because Joe blow's Mechanic lien will not be paid. In Wisconsin, you can purchase a $140,000 property for pennies on the dollar...and all that money goes to the mortgage company. The lien holders will never see their money. Especially if the mortgagee decides to file bankruptcy, as well.

    Yes, that is the way it SHOULD be done...as you outlined. However, it is RARELY done that way. The courts do not get in the way of a MORTGAGE company getting rid of it's properties. If you are SELLING a place, then you have to pay the liens before anything else...but, MOST CASES once a foreclosure happens, the other lien holders throw up their hands knowing that they will never get paid. Trust me on this.

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    Banned Melonie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    MOST CASES once a foreclosure happens, the other lien holders throw up their hands knowing that they will never get paid. Trust me on this.
    ... unless state law allows a bankruptcy judge to 'share the crumbs' instead ... in which case the lower tier lienholders may not simply 'throw up their hands' but may instead continue to hassle the bankrupt former property owner (welcome to Chapter 13 instead of Chapter 7) and also (quasi-legally or totally illegally) hassle the new property 'owner' in hopes of collecting from one or the other.

    Cloudy titles SUCK re Chapter 13 bankruptcies because as long as the bankruptcy case remains open the issue of liens on the property you purchased at auction are also potentially still open if one of the subordinate creditors wants to make an issue of it ! It's important to research completely whether or not a bankruptcy judge has officially cut loose all former liens on the property you intend to buy, or whether there are still some possibility of a creditor trying to extract additional payments based on a non-dissolved lien from the former 'owner'. Of course the odds of you actually having to pay money to a former 'owner's creditor is next to zero. But the existance of this possibility can and will make it very difficult for you to 'flip' the property before the former owner's Chapter 13 bankruptcy case is totally resolved (which could take 5 years these days).
    Last edited by Melonie; 09-27-2007 at 12:39 AM.

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    God/dess whirlerz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    Damn.
    It all sounds so complicated to me. I guess, back to the library to read up. thanks everyone.


    MANY MEN WANTED TO LAY ME DOWN, BUT FEW WANTED TO LIFT ME UP

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    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    Well, if there are left over funds after the mortgage company gets rid of the house, then YES, those funds are "shared" with the secondary lienholders. HOWEVER, that has no bearing on the property if it is sold at a loss. The other interested parties have the right to go after the property owner who OWNED the house at the time the lien was originally levied against the property. They have no legal grounds to go after the current property holder...and doing so will get them in hot water. That is the chance that they take by putting a lien against the house. They will only get their money AFTER the first lienholder (and all lienholders ahead of them are paid). If the house is sold at auction...for the mortgaged amount of the property, or below, they lose their money. That's it. Bottom line. They have no legal recourse except to go after the owner who owned the property prior to the foreclosure. In a short sale (or any direct sale of the property exchanging hands from the original property owner to another party) the lien must be paid off. In a foreclosure, it is not the same...unless there is left over money. And, very rarely in an auctioned property is there substantial left-over money.

    This does not apply to governmental agency liens (ie. city/state fines, taxes). But, private party liens (mechanics, etc) are not conveyed...and rarely are utility liens.

    The "laws" may change with the state...but it's pretty much across the board that if there is anything but a governmental/mortgage lien on the property, they won't get anything...and the new owner in 99% of those cases is NOT responsible for those liens.

  24. #24
    God/dess VenusGoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melonie View Post
    .But the existance of this possibility can and will make it very difficult for you to 'flip' the property before the former owner's Chapter 13 bankruptcy case is totally resolved (which could take 5 years these days).
    Mel, this is not true. The house cannot go into foreclosure auction until that is resolved by the bankruptcy courts (there is a hold placed on all actions resulting from a bk action and no one can legally repo or foreclose until that stay is lifted). The mortgage company cannot sell a property it has no rights (sanctioned by the courts) to sell.

    So, if you purchase a property that was foreclosed on (and you can only do this if the bank went to court, no matter which state you are in, and said, "Yes, you can go to auction with this property") then you can flip that house whenever you want. The new owner does not have to wait for the resolution of the Chpt. 13 bankruptcy. That has nothing to do with them...and the house, which was given the ok to be sold, has nothing to do with that any longer, as well.
    Last edited by VenusGoddess; 09-27-2007 at 09:20 AM.

  25. #25
    AudreyLeigh
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    Default Re: Foreclosure homes?

    Doin some research - California and Texas done require a lawsuit to go into foreclosure. Which means there doesnt have to be a Ch 13?

    OK, kind of off subject but WTF is ?

    Whats all this talk about Judicial and Non Judicial? Does that affect foreclosures and other liens that may be on them?

    Or is it that once you buy a house all liens are gone. Im now getting confused. And that link above is making me think twice about buying in where theres an HOA.... but EVERYTHING here has one. Ugh.

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