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Thread: All you teacher types...

  1. #1
    Yekhefah
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    All you teacher types...

    I'm teaching a middle school class every weekday afternoon, and for the most part it's going well. I do have one fifth-grader who is a total shithead and I don't know what to do about him. He's the typical disrespectful ten-year-old prick with a mullet and half-assed parents (apparently this weekend they all watched Idiocracy together, what a great movie for a fifth grader). He won't stay in his seat, he shouts over everyone else whenever he gets the urge to speak, and he has absolutely zero respect for my authority as the teacher. On the first day of class he actually took a mocking tone to bitch about the class and how "boring" and "annoying" I was. I threw him out of the class and he hasn't done that since, but he's still a disrespectful little prick.

    Without completely throwing this kid out of my class, what can I do? I know exactly what he needs, and it's for his mother to smack him into next week. But that's not going to happen, and if I do that I'm going to get sued, so what's the next best thing? So far he settles down if I cut him a look and tell him to knock it off, but then he's doing it again within the same hour. Suggestions?

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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    Can you have him sit in a part of the room where he'll be isolated? If so you could use that as punishment.

    Or you could make friends with him and get him to be good cause he likes you.



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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    My dad has grabbed a few kids by the shoulders while screaming in their faces. He got in trouble for it, but he has tenure. He says that sometimes he's tempted to hire other kids to beat some sense into those "Oppositional-defiant-disorder" little shits. He wouldn't really, but the bane to his existence are those precious little snowflakes who don't get any disipline until they enter juvie or jail.

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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    Yek, may I ask what you're teaching??

  5. #5
    Kaylinn
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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    Your teaching a filmmaking class, right?

    This might not be possible, but if it is....

    Can you plan a field trip for right before Christmas break to tour a tv/movie set?

    Get the kids real real excited about it, and then tell them they can only go if they behave between now and Christmas. Then put that shithead kid in charge of some part of the planning, or find a way to get him involved and excited about it.


    Or...make friends with him. I can tell you when I acted up in school, the teachers who kicked me out only got further disrespected from me, btu the ones who actualyl gave a shit and tried to be friends with me I respected and acted right in class.

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    Senior Member at321's Avatar
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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    oh man oh man! there are other teacher strippers out there! I actually haven't started stripping yet but I have been teaching for a few years and it's been children of all ages. I've had some great classes and I've had some that have almost given me a nervous breakdown! The book that helped me the most in maintaining my cool and keeping the kids in line was "Setting Limits in the Classroom." The book basically gives you ideas for time outs, not giving repeated warnings, laying down the rules and having consequences, etc.
    As far as sarcastic remarks, unless I'm speaking in front of the class and trying to teach or demonstrate, I try to let sarcastic remarks go. Kids want to egg you on and they'll say anything for you to take the bait. Don't show anger or overreact. You can look at him disapprovingly but don't take the bait and let it become an argument. Just realize that his parents taught him shit and he has bad manners.
    Give students two options..."or you can participate with the rest of the class or you can sit in the back of the room and fill out some type of worksheet (that you the teacher plan) and we'll talk about it after class." If the student won't participate like he/she should, they go to the back of the classroom and do a worksheet that you've chosen-- it can be a crossword or something but make it with really long words and make it a dull, uninteresting worksheet that keeps him/her occupied...
    Ok, these are just a few of the ideas I've got from the book...seriously though, buy it because it's worth the money. Any other questions, email me! Take care!

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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    You should make him write a letter to the principal, his parents and his fellow classmates. Make him write out exactly what he did and why its wrong and make him write it to be a few pages in length, single space, size font 9 or 10. Sometimes that will prevent them from doing shit again.




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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    When I was in highschool (so slightly older crowd) the best teacher, bar none, at keeping discipline was a soft spoken woman who relied heavily on understanding and reason. When she kicked a kid out of class this is what would happen - before the kid did anything all that bad; "Student x, can I talk to you for a moment? You look like you really have something on your mind today. I can tell you have a lot to think about, and you would probably really like to be alone for a little while. Why don't you move your desk over here; I understand that sometimes you need some isolation and padding from the other students." Okay, she was a little more sophisticated than that, but she had zero issues with her authority because she never made it an issue. I TAed for a high school, but I had no authority, so I couldn't make it an issue, but when you try to make them do something because you're in charge - you're begging for a response of "you're not the boss of me". Try just eliciting cooperation or appealing to a mutual authority (when students decorate their mail folders with pictures of condoms, I could turn to them and say very sensibly: "And what am I going to tell the parents when they walk in and see this? Do you think that is an excuse they will understand and appreciate? Then maybe you can express your views on safe sex in a forum that is not our classroom. A "forum" is... " Good times.
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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    ......
    Last edited by SundayMorning; 10-03-2008 at 08:02 AM.


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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    I TA'd an acting class in high school, and I had one of these kids. I took him aside and talked to him about what his real problem was with the class. I found out what it was, and he wasnt' around his friends when I did it so he didn't act like a jack ass. He behaved after that. I found out afterwards that he was the same little shit my mom used to complain about when she taught him in kindergarten.
    I believe you Dottie and you have my support

  11. #11
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    These are awesome ideas, guys, thank you. I'm going to mull them over and see if I can combine them into a single approach. He's already better behaved now than he was the first week, and the damn thing is he actually participates and gets into the class so if I can just get him to chill out and treat me like a teacher, we'll be great. When I was teaching Hebrew I had a similar problem student and I made him my "assistant," and he turned almost overnight into a great kid who actually learned a lot. I wish I could do that now but there just wouldn't be anything for this kid to do.

    Kaylinn, the field trip idea is great but I would never get away with bringing that many kids to a film set. Sets are dangerous places and people get hurt; the production would be in deep trouble with the insurance company if I brought kids around, and the producers would never allow it for a variety of other reasons besides. But maybe another kind of field trip would be in order... lemme think.

    And yeah, Embyr, I'm teaching film, to grades 4-8. It's an experience, let me tell ya.

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    Featured Member paintgoddess's Avatar
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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    Wow. I almost envy you. I taught both high school and college freshmen and had my share of problem students. I dearly loved them but didn't take shit from anyone either. ("Don't mistake my kindness for weakness") That being said, I wish I knew what to tell you about dealing with a problem student in this age group.

    As for getting him to treat you like a teacher... sounds like this kid needs a mentor to show him how a decent person acts and reacts. (He's probably mirroring what he sees at home from parents and/or siblings.) Your responses to his disrespect are gonna teach him more than your words, and that's looking back to when I used to be a pain in the ass as a kid...

    Just my 2 cents. I'm no expert. But mad props to you. I have so much reverence for teachers.
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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    I'm a big fan of taking a kid aside and creating a separate discussion with him--actually take him for a while and talk to him, alone, about his life, about anything you can get him talking about. I have a feeling he'll be different one on one--the group dynamics are not there for him to exploit. And having had that time with you the dynamics of the class change: he now is in kind of a conspiracy with you, and you can start to tip him toward being a help to the class, rather than a problem.

    Easier said than done, Yek, I know. A friend of mine--she was a captain in the army before becoming a director of a large college department--often disciplines kids by asking, "and you decided to do this why, precisely?" -- putting the pressure on the kid to justify stupid or potentially destructive actions. It seems to work for her everytime.

    Perhaps some combination of these two ideas will be of help. I wish you luck with this.
    JK Jim

  14. #14
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    ^^^ Ooh, that's a good one. I like that, even though 10-year-old boys can't answer that question because they never know why they're doing anything. They just don't think.

    I can say I'm enjoying this teaching gig, but I can also say I definitely prefer teaching adults.

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    Too bad about the kid, Yek. With parents like that, he's really starting out on the wrong foot. But I have a feeling that if he's acting out that much, there is a lot in him--maybe some one on one time will get to that, somehow make him more self-aware. It is a tough situation, but you might be able to make a real difference in the kid's life, or at least give him some light to walk for.

    Good luck with all of it--let us know how it turns out. Don't beat yourself up too much if you can't get it under control...you're fighting a pretty big wave. Just do the best you can.
    JK Jim

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    God/dess Farrah_Holiday's Avatar
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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    I think he's just trying to get your attention Yek..I would single him out to be my classroom helper if I were you..When I'd volunteer in my niece's class, there was this one kid named Spencer who was quite a handful. He'd never stay in his sit and would totally disrupt the classroom..It took me a couple of days to figure out how to handle him..But, I eventually wrapped him around my finger. Boys are just smaller versions of men IMO..And we all know how much men like to help out pretty ladies !
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    God/dess MojoJojo's Avatar
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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    I was a high school teacher for a "high risk freshman math class". One of my classes had one of those students. He was always encouraging others to be as much of a dumbass as he was. Granted, I don't know that this will work for every child, but here was my method.

    I pulled this individual out of class after one of his antics. I took him in the hall. I explained to him, calmly and rationally so that I would NOT be one of those people who was bitching at him...and I said...calmly...."It is clear to me that you have no interest in this material. That is fine. It's a choice you have made. However, you do NOT have a right to decide for others that since YOU are bored, you must constantly distract everyone else....regardless of what THEY think. So here's the deal. If you want to remain in my class, you come here, you bring a notebook, you bring a pencil, and you stay awake....and you stay quiet. You pull this shit again, and you're out. EVERY DAY if necessary. And the beauty of it all is that you get to decide. So before you walk back into this class, decide which way it's going to go."

    Remember - the ones who act up get bitched at all the time...so make it a choice...and a kind choice. It's nothing personal. It's business.
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  18. #18
    Veteran Member 423texas's Avatar
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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah View Post
    I do have one fifth-grader who is a total shithead and I don't know what to do about him.
    Ritalin will fix the little Bastard!

    No, just kidding.

    Good Luck with your class, enjoy it.

  19. #19
    God/dess UtahMike's Avatar
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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    Interesting--I am now a long term substitute at a middle school, and I recently had to deal with a student like this. When he refused to cooperate in any way, I watched him until i caught him doing something for which I could refer him to the assistant principal. It turned out to be making a threatening gesture to another student, and for that he was suspended for a day.

    During this day, I talked to teachers who had known him before and found out that he functions far below grade level. At his previous school (which was closed), he received in school tutoring, but they do not have that at this school, just after school tutoring.

    So when he came back, I moved a chair and sat next to him, and asked him quietly if he would like some work just for him, work that would be a little easier. He moved his desk a couple inches away from me and grunted that he didn't care.

    Every time that I saw him in the halls, I said hello to him by name. Today, he said hello to ME and asked me how it was going. Today, he smiled as I presented a lesson.

    Now, other things to try:

    You absolutely MUST document in writing, dated, and signed, every incident including what he did and what you did. You must be specific: "Student never does what I say," will not make it. "Student was told to be quiet and continued to make loud noises" is better.

    You need to find a buddy room. This is a room where you send you students when they are disruptive. The other teacher sends you his/her students. It is best if the other room is a greatly different age than yours. This takes the student's audience away from him. Students stay there up to fifteen minutes with an assignment to do. Sometimes they stay up to an hour.

    You must contact the parents, describe in literal terms the behavior, and ask their help in eliminating it. It is best if you contact the parents before your student has time to go home and tell them his version. Document this contact.

    Is this a student who has hopes of working in the film industry? Have you mentioned that you have real paid experience in this field, and that your letter of recommendation would carry more weight than someone whose only experience is in academia, someone like me, for instance? And that you would not give a letter of recommendation to someone who would be disruptive on the set or who would interupt a scene with inappropriate noise?

    Moving closer to the student sometimes helps.

    Another thing to do is to find someplace where the rest of your class can go. You need an emergency assignment for this and someone who agrees to take the class. Then, when he acts up and refuses to stop, you send the class to the other location, preferably someplace fun, and the disruptive student stays in the room with you.

    You can call him in during his recess, lunch, free time, PE period, after school, and assign him to make his disruptive noises and say his disruptive phrases over and over. "If you want to complain about how boring the class is, here is your chance. Keep complaining without stopping for fifteen minutes. If you stop, you have to start over. If you can't go fifteen minutes, you have to do it again tomorrow. Of course, when you have had the chance to complain to me enough, I will know because you will stop complaining in class. Until that happens, you must come here every day to complain at the appropriate time and place.

    Behavior mod can work: I gave every student a sheet with a space for twenty rubber stamps. When they collected twenty stamps from me, they could trade it for a pencil. (I stopped giving out candy because it just made them more hyper.) I gave stamps for being on time, being prepared, completing assignments, and for appropriate behavior. Funny, but the stamps for appropriate behavior got given out more often when someone was goofing off. Compliment and reward the students who are behaving WHILE the student is being disruptive. Reward the class for ignoring him.

    Even if he upsets you, never show it. You can be irate, but you can't lose your temper. If you do, he is in control of you.

    A behavior retrieval that you (and his other teachers) must sign each period can help. He must take it home to his parents the next day, they must sign it, and he must bring it back. If he doesn't, he misses his recess the next day.

    Speaking of other teachers, does he behave this way in every class? If he does, your school must call for a staffing on the student. A staffing is a meeting to which the teachers, the parents, and the students go. It is held to help the student do better in school. You start by listing all his good qualities and talents. Then you describe the problems, and then everybody makes a plan to solve the problems. Everybody signs the plan. Another meeting is scheduled a month or six weeks out to evaluate the success of the plan. Usually the principal and perhaps the counselor also attend these meetings.

    If other teachers do not have the problem, what are they doing that you are not doing? Ask their help. You are all in this together. Do not think you will be judged if you have a behavior problem. Every teacher hs to deal with this.

    That's all I can think of for now.

    Good luck!

  20. #20
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    Thanks so much, y'all. I think the reason this particular shithead is an issue for me, is because I can tell he's intelligent and genuinely interested in the material. His distractions and rudeness have recently turned into enthusiastic outbursts that are relevant to the class discussion, he just doesn't have any consideration for anyone else and shouts out whatever springs to his mind when he thinks of it. I was going to take him aside for a chat today but I was talking to another student, and the "problem" kid ran out before I could get to him.

    I'm encouraged that he does seem interested in the material now, and that he's so enthusiastic about it. He just needs to settle down and not shout down everyone else. I run my class with more participation than the other teachers, so I think he might just be getting carried away. I wouldn't have thought so a few weeks ago, but now I think he's fixable.

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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    I'm glad this is going a little better, Yek. Let us know what happens.
    JK Jim

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    God/dess Farrah_Holiday's Avatar
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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah View Post
    Thanks so much, y'all. I think the reason this particular shithead is an issue for me, is because I can tell he's intelligent and genuinely interested in the material. His distractions and rudeness have recently turned into enthusiastic outbursts that are relevant to the class discussion, he just doesn't have any consideration for anyone else and shouts out whatever springs to his mind when he thinks of it. I was going to take him aside for a chat today but I was talking to another student, and the "problem" kid ran out before I could get to him.

    I'm encouraged that he does seem interested in the material now, and that he's so enthusiastic about it. He just needs to settle down and not shout down everyone else. I run my class with more participation than the other teachers, so I think he might just be getting carried away. I wouldn't have thought so a few weeks ago, but now I think he's fixable.
    I'm glad he is turning around. Do you know if he has ADD ? I know some children who do tend to shout out questions not because they are rude but, because they're afraid they'll forget the answers with all that goes on in the brain. My nephew has ADD, as do I and I had to learn what techiques to use for him.
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  23. #23
    Yekhefah
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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    To be honest, I'm not entirely sure I believe in ADD. If it does exist, I don't think it's as widespread as some (*coughcoughdrugcompaniescough*) would have us believe... but that's another thread entirely. I think he just needs more discipline at home; he seems like a pretty typical boy of his age, but without the training to restrain himself.

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    God/dess Farrah_Holiday's Avatar
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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    Quote Originally Posted by Yekhefah View Post
    To be honest, I'm not entirely sure I believe in ADD. If it does exist, I don't think it's as widespread as some (*coughcoughdrugcompaniescough*) would have us believe... but that's another thread entirely. I think he just needs more discipline at home; he seems like a pretty typical boy of his age, but without the training to restrain himself.
    ADD to me is just being flooded with many thoughts at one time. and my brain telling me to do 50 thousand different things. It's something I've learned to use it to my advantage. Anyone who has it can but, it requires training.
    I don't know if I believe in Ritalin. I've dealt with one high level school administrator who is over special ed, he has severe ADD. I've never seen anything like his condition in all my life. He REALLY,REALLY has it but, he also has a Ph.D. I used to think it was a blanket diagnosis as well. I do feel too many children are misdiagnosed for the sake of drug companies.
    But as you said that's another thread, I just wanted to put idea out there for you.
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    God/dess UtahMike's Avatar
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    Default Re: All you teacher types...

    Yelling out an answer while someone else is talking is not ADD. It is a self-centered lack of manners.

    One thing that has worked for me is this: I speak to the student and say something like this: "Hubert, I've noticed that you are always first with the answer. But what's happening, is that other students aren't bothering to answer. They just wait until you answer, and then they just nod their heads and say, 'Yeah, uh-huh, that's what I would've said.' So here's what I want to try. I'm not going to call on you at all. But after I call on someone else, I'm going to turn to you and ask if you agree with the answer. It it's a discussion, I'm going to turn to you and ask if you agree with the comment or if you want to add to it. That way, you will get to show that you know the answer, but other people will stop piggy-backing off what you say."

    That usually works for me.

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