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Thread: Back to being a vegan

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    God/dess ahmeerah's Avatar
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    Default Back to being a vegan

    I've been vegan most of my life but every handful of years I experiment and put animal products back in. i tried for this summer and I gained 2 inches in my butt! 2 inches in my thighs! and 2 inches in my waist! Heeeeeeellllll no!

    Experimentation OVER. But I'm tempted to supplement with l-glutamine,b12 and maybe I'll add goatein (whey powder). So maybe I won't be totally back to veganism. I'm detoxing this week though for SURE.

    All I know is I want my little body back YESTERDAY.

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    Veteran Member naughty_princess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    yay good for you!!!!!!!!!!!

    going to vegan sites always reaffirms why i am doing it. browse through peta or something for a little extra motivation. i think its easier to do it out of compassion than it is for weight loss

    www.goveg.com

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    Veteran Member naughty_princess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    oh yah and maybe you could try soy protein or spirulina protein instead of the goat whey?

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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    yey for going vegan again ... I have been off and on with macrobiotic eating for awhile... (though considering myself to have an excess of Yin I do eat some fish, but no eggs, dairy, etc... and NO fruit... as it is way too yin and breaks me out!) I've always wondered how it was to go vegan but the idea of relying on a supplement sorta scares me... did you ever have signs of b12 deficiency?
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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    Just make sure to take some flax seed oil, b12 vitamins, and iron pills.

    Seitan is great for protein...instead of soy all the time. Try cooking up your own seitan (from wheat gluten powder..it's like making dough!)...in a broth. It can come out good if you use good recipe's. Or, you can buy it ready-made, though it tends to be pricey.

    Being vegan is tough. Are you doing it for anti-kill reason, or non-humane-raising-butIdon'tmindananimalgettingkilled reasons? I've tried to switch to organic milk (depends on the brand...I think there's a score card of which "organic" companies really adhere to humane standards for raising their animals for meat or dairy... I try getting organic chicken, but it's sooo pricey! Espeically the milk. I think when budget isn't sooo tight i'll totally switch over to ethical eating...and doing my homework before eating from certain "organic" meat companies (like Murray's chickens...I read that they aren't truly organic...they're free range, but that it free-ranging in a closed factory, lol! they're not in cages, but it's not good enough for me. I want them having fresh air in the chicken cages outside..or even grazing).

    Ethical eating is difficult.......hope you deal well I know I've always felt the best about myself, had more self-esteem, when I was living my beliefs...voting with my dollar... I learned about the horrible animal abuse, factory conditions...it's terrible. Doing something about it, choosing to consume differently, helps...at least it helps my soul and I know my money is going toward humane animal raising practice. However, I don't take it to the other level... where I don't believe in animals being killed for food...I don't mind that, I just want them to be raised humanely and to be killed humanely...quickly, the least painful way. Everyone has different beliefs, and they can change over time.
    However, when it comes to fish, I think they have less feelings...they're not as complex as chickens, cows, etc...so I don't really mind if they're raised in tight tanks or caught in the wild...though I think one day the guilt will catch up to me and i'll try to buy fish that was caught in the wild, not tight overcrowded breeding pools..where they also are given tons of antibiotics and fed color pills to keep their meat looking pinker (in case of salmon). I think i've heard something like this...
    Last edited by da; 09-28-2007 at 10:33 PM. Reason: added more

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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    Quote Originally Posted by da View Post
    I just want them to be raised humanely and to be killed humanely...quickly, the least painful way. Everyone has different beliefs, and they can change over time.

    However, when it comes to fish, I think they have less feelings...they're not as complex as chickens, cows, etc...so I don't really mind if they're raised in tight tanks or caught in the wild...though I think one day the guilt will catch up to me and i'll try to buy fish that was caught in the wild, not tight overcrowded breeding pools.
    Me too. I've decided to cut out all meat and dairy except for seafood (How sentient are fish?). It's just difficult and is going to take a lot of time I think because there are so many things that I would never think had any sort of animal product in them that do, things that I'll have to learn about along the way I guess.

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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    peta are racist jerks. 'eating meat is just like american slavery'. wtfever.

    if you've been vegan more than 15 years, do let me know. vegans of that duration are extremely hard to come by, and vegans of even 10 years are passing rare.

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    God/dess ahmeerah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    Actually being vegan is EASY and natural for me. But I know that I need l-glutamine and b12 in my life for energy and repair reasons.

    I've been using spirulina for a while. Hemp protein too. Soy -- only the fermented stuff like miso and tempeh. No gluten (that includes not eating seitan) for this body.

    I already feel leaner. hehe.

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    God/dess Farrah_Holiday's Avatar
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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    ^ Hemp protein is wonderful.. I'm a veggie but, lean more to the vegan side. However I still eat egg whites and cheeses occasionally. I also have gained weight whenever I try to supplement my diet with meats..Usually when I do a high protein diet.

    Congrats on doing something heathly for a yourself.
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    Gypsy74
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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    Quote Originally Posted by miabella View Post
    peta are racist jerks. 'eating meat is just like american slavery'. wtfever.

    if you've been vegan more than 15 years, do let me know. vegans of that duration are extremely hard to come by, and vegans of even 10 years are passing rare.
    Peta is an example of radical veganism. I don't agree with their means, but I do agree with their message.

    Peta gives vegans who ARENT militant, radical, nonjudgemental jerks a bad name. I am one of those people who will without a doubt be a vegan for life. It's a lifestyle change decision I made. I cannot even imagine consuming an animal product- the thought makes me sick. I decided to go vegan when i was 16 years old, I'm turning 19 this week, which will make it almost 3 years of living a vegan lifestyle. So when I'm 31, I'll let you know how I'm doing Forgot to mention, since I made the lifestyle change to veganism (I hate using the word vegan, but it's quick and easy to explain, to people I'm meeting for hte first time i usually just tell them I consume no animal products or try to live consciously) I've been almost completely cured of my eating disorder, I have only gotten really sick once (as opposed to 8-9 times a year with strep throat, tonsillitis, sinus infections, etc as a result of my low immune system from being sick), I've maintained the same weight for three years straight, I've had no unhealthy desires to lose weight, I've been extremely calm and don't have such drastic mood swings anymore.

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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    considering plants are living things too, that feel pain, it makes me sick to imagine anyone privileging a form of life that isn't, you know, their species over any other. obviously cannibalism is just absurd to undertake. i and any other human has to consume life to live, and whether it screams in pain or not just seems like a goofy boundary to draw to me (and an inconsistent one, since veg*ns are all anti-shellfish and such).

    many people get sick without meat or animal products, as far as that goes. veg*n as a dietary choice for you personally-- have fun. advocating that it's the best of all diets or more eco-friendly-- not cool and damned inaccurate.

    i been around a lot of self-righteous vegans, many of whom supported peta's goofy racism and sexism because they liked the self-righteous 'going meatless is SUPERIOR AND MORE EVOLVED' message peta additionally advocates.

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    Gypsy74
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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    Quote Originally Posted by miabella View Post
    considering plants are living things too, that feel pain, it makes me sick to imagine anyone privileging a form of life that isn't, you know, their species over any other. obviously cannibalism is just absurd to undertake. i and any other human has to consume life to live, and whether it screams in pain or not just seems like a goofy boundary to draw to me (and an inconsistent one, since veg*ns are all anti-shellfish and such).
    .
    LOL. You're seriously using "plants feel pain" as an argument? That has no basis. It is entirely possible and extremely healthy to be vegan. It's the natural way to live. If you look at the way our digestive systems are formed and our bodies- we are NOT equipped to be omnivores. We were omnivores out of necessity, and now we are omnivores by choice and habit. No american NEEDS to eat meat. You can get plenty of protein and iron from plant sources if you EDUCATE yourself about nutrition.

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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    plants do experience pain sensations. a century ago or so, scientists 'proved' animals didn't experience pain. and also black people. just something to keep in mind. the fact that you consider it a silly argument just means you're the same as those scientists from a century ago, convinced your chosen way is OMG MORE SUPERIOR.

    we are in fact most similar in digestive respect to pigs, which are omnivorous animals. we are designed to eat both plant and animal flesh, not exclusively one or the other, but both.

    although i did 'educate' myself and it turns out that raw animal flesh supplies all the nutrients a human body needs without any artificial supplements. every needful nutrient, including that old bugaboo b-12, is there in raw or lightly seared animal flesh-- this is quite simply not true of raw/fresh plant matter (unless earthworms died in it and you ate them or something along those lines).

    of course it's possible to live healthily as a vegan. that doesn't mean it's a superior diet for the majority of humanity to adopt. for a few people, as a personal choice, it's probably ok. we have the technological infrastructure to support their indulgence. but it's worth noting that vegan diets (used to be called 'strict vegetarianism) are a very, very ,very modern development. they simply did not exist prior to the 20th century.

    omnivorous diets and vegetarianism with animal products-- actual historically verifiable diets that humans routinely adopt.

    veganism specifically-- not historical and a recent modern development.

    it's that simple.

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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    Quote Originally Posted by miabella View Post
    we have the technological infrastructure to support their indulgence.
    Man you've got a high horse.

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    Veteran Member naughty_princess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    ^ in regards to your plants feel pain idea, you might be interested to know that there are a group of vegans who only eat fruits/vegetables that were made to be consumed by other animals. Therefore avoiding eating roots of plants (potato, carrots, etc) which would kill the plant. For example an apple tree produces apples to spread its seeds. The apples fall off the tree naturally and causes the tree no "pain". I have also heard that the reason so much energy goes into encasing the seeds in a delicious juicy apple is to entice animals to take it, eat it, and therefore spread the seeds to wherever they had wandered.......

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    God/dess ahmeerah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    Quote Originally Posted by miabella View Post
    although i did 'educate' myself and it turns out that raw animal flesh supplies all the nutrients a human body needs without any artificial supplements. every needful nutrient, including that old bugaboo b-12, is there in raw or lightly seared animal flesh-- this is quite simply not true of raw/fresh plant matter (unless earthworms died in it and you ate them or something along those lines).

    but it's worth noting that vegan diets (used to be called 'strict vegetarianism) are a very, very ,very modern development. they simply did not exist prior to the 20th century.

    omnivorous diets and vegetarianism with animal products-- actual historically verifiable diets that humans routinely adopt.

    veganism specifically-- not historical and a recent modern development.

    it's that simple.
    This is part of the reason why I did this experiment. Initially I felt GREAT. Then I started feeling kinda ick. Then I started getting thick. I might do as FArrah and occasionally include eggs. MAYBE. I haven't completely decided how I'll go about this. Maybe it'll be whey. Maybe it'll be eggs. Maybe just fish. I have to see what I feel best including or NOT including.

    It'll have to be occassional and in small amounts apparently.

    I think nutrition has everything to do with feeling your best and listening to your body. So that's what I'm doing. We're all wired differently and those differences should be respected.

    Strict vegetarianism is very modern but a lot of things in life have evolved. The world is also more toxic now than it was years ago.

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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    I remember reading some hippie vegan thing one time about these women who ate the placenta after having babies. It was vegan because no animal died, but yet it was meat. Obviously, I'm not saying you guys are extremist vegan hippies, but I always wondered about that.

    I'm all for doing things for health, but I think that can be done whether you eat meat or not. Everything in moderation is how I try to look at my diet. And to each their own regarding vegetarian/vegan eating, as long as you aren't looking down your nose at those who don't subscribe to the same POV.
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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    Quote Originally Posted by miabella View Post

    veganism specifically-- not historical and a recent modern development.
    So is penicillin.

    Regarding the argument that plants feel pain, it takes about 18 pounds of grain to produce one pound of beef, so if that's really your angle I'd think that you'd want to save all those poor plants by eating smaller amounts outright and not funneling massive amounts inefficiently through livestock.

    But I do believe most people recognize that, sans developed central nervous system, plants do not feel pain.

  19. #19
    Gypsy74
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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    Quote Originally Posted by miabella View Post
    we have the technological infrastructure to support their indulgence.
    It sounds like someone has a guilty conscience. Get off your pedestal, miabella.

    To say that veganism did not exist prior to the 20th century is really ignorant. The word "vegan" and all other forms of it may not have been commercialized, sensationalized and used in propaganda by Peta so that it is as commonly known as it is today- but the structure of the lifestyle has been around forever. In the Vedas, it teaches to only consume for necessity, which is why today people in the Hindu religion are vegetarian, and consume dairy VERY sparingly and only from sources where the cows are free and happy and treated well. The Rastafaris don't eat anything dead- not even alcohol because it's fermented. Was this called vegan? No because back then they didn't need buzzwords and propaganda to market their products because they didn't have a fucked up supply&demand corporate consumer-based economy like we do now.

    The lifestyle adopted by humans that requires not consuming animals unnecessarily has ALWAYS been around, the Vedas are the oldest written record we have, so I think it's safe to say that veganism has been recognized since the beginning of written history.

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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    [QUOTE=Gypsy74;1225222]Was this called vegan? No because back then they didn't need buzzwords and propaganda to market their products because they didn't have a fucked up supply&demand corporate consumer-based economy like we do now.
    [QUOTE]

    This is a great point. The Jains of India--one of the oldest religions in the world--have always been "vegan" (by the definition). They don't go to PETA rallies or have vegan potlucks, but they're vegan.

  21. #21
    Gypsy74
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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    oh yeah.. miabella.....You can't use "plants feel pain" as an argument. Just letting you know that once more - anyone you say that to who knows anything about agriculture will think you're an idiot. We can't exactly all go breatharian, eating plants is natural. Massive farming of animals that uses up acres of land, gallons of water, tons of grain, fuel for transportation, electricity for massive massacre inside concrete and steel buildings with drains in the floor for the blood to swirl down......is not. It's cruel, and if anything that's what "we have the technological infrastructure to support their indulgence" is targeted at.

    Without slaughterhouses and commercial dairy farms... the "technological infrastructure" you would not have your hamburgers, ice cream, prepackaged frozen chicken breasts, gallons of pus and blood filled milk..etc to support your indulgence.

    To sustain a vegan diet, all you need to do is read up on gardening and nutrition and start a garden in your BACKYARD where you can grow EVERYTHING you need to survive, if that's too difficult, go to a food co-op, join a community garden, go to the farmers market. Eating vegan is a hell of a lot more sustainable and does not NEED technology!!!!!

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    God/dess Andygirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    What kinds of things can vegans eat for dessert? Dark chocolate, obviously, but what other kinds of yummy stuff can be made vegan? And what kinds of stuff do you have for a main course? I guess my basic questions revolve around what kind of stuff really fills you up if you are vegan.
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  23. #23
    Gypsy74
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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    For dessert you can make pretty much any recipe that uses animal products into one that is vegan. To substitute an egg, use 1/2 cup applesauce, a banana or ener-G egg replacer. To substitute milk, use soy/almond/hemp/rice whatever. To substitute butter, use spectrum spread or any other vegan margarine. Since we do like in a consumer based society, and the vegan diet has been so sensationalized, you can find lots of very filling pre-made vegan meals (like amy's organics) as well as packaged cookies, energy bars, ice cream.... at this point pretty much anything that you want to eat... there is a vegan alternative in a health food store like wild oats or whole foods. Of course, like their omnivore counterparts, things like vegan ice cream aren't exactly HEALTHY, they are healthier, but still.. not too healthy. But they're delicious if you're craving something other than a grain/legumes/vegetable/fruit combination.

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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    I have been raw vegan mostly since March, find I feel so much better and no longer need any meds for my crohns

    As far as mains

    Regular vegan : pasta dishes(corn pasta/vegetable pasta), huge salads, mexican style meals- taco, avacado, tomato sauces etc

    I dont have anything cooked or soy/alternatives

    Usually huge salads, zuchini pasta with tomato sauce/raw olives

    Deserts

    raw cakes/cheesecakes- frozen fruits/nut bases

    Raw ice creams- banana is a popular one but can make some amazing combinations

    Vegan- if you eat soy- soy ice cream, fruit salads, cheescake with a "soft cheeze"-like tofutti

    .. I made tonnes of recipes and stuff at first but now I keep things really simple, which is just more user friendly. Eg. Melon for brekfast, 1lb-2lb grapes lunch, evening meal- salads, gauc(just avacado, some sundried tomato perhaps), some raw olives perhaps. Or a fruit meal- or two courses of fruit- Watermelon then 1-2hours later a berries/or other seasonal fruit.

    I forgot: now its winter you could try some fresh soups- lots of lovely variety of squash, courgette- blended soups are super easy- cold or heated. Yum!

    This website has some cool raw dishes http://goneraw.com/recipes

    The world is your oyster!!
    Last edited by stripper_london; 09-30-2007 at 12:57 PM. Reason: forgot extra info

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    God/dess ahmeerah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Back to being a vegan

    Quote Originally Posted by Andygirl View Post
    What kinds of things can vegans eat for dessert? Dark chocolate, obviously, but what other kinds of yummy stuff can be made vegan? And what kinds of stuff do you have for a main course? I guess my basic questions revolve around what kind of stuff really fills you up if you are vegan.
    The vegan diet is full of fiber so lots of things are filling to ME. Plus there are always NUTS! If I eat a dessert it's usually raw/live from a restaurant. I'm in NYC so I'm kinda spoiled. For instance I LOVE raw icecream. It's cashew or coconut based.

    My dessert might be fruit with a nut butter or something. But I haven't craved sweets in a while.

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