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Thread: flip side: avoiding the hustle

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    Default flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Hi Ladies -

    This is my first post so please take it easy on me.

    I live in nyc and probably go to a strip club maybe once every other month. I have been guilty of asking for a girl's phone number and usually being hustled in the form of "Oh hi! I am working tonight, why don't you come by and see me?". I can totally understand where they are coming from, it is a business for them and I respect it. I fell for that once and really try to limit myself from that happening again.

    Anyway a week ago last Friday I met a girl from FL and got her phone number. We chatted a few times over the past week and we have a dinner date setup for Tuesday. I still feel like I am in the dark in terms of if I am getting hustled or not and was just curious as to how you think I should play this? She told me to call her Monday night to remind her about Tuesday night. I already made reservations at a nice restaurant and I would assume I would get a very clear message from her when I talk to her Monday as to what the deal is. She works on Monday nights though so it may just be me leaving a voicemail. If I do not get a voicemail I don't want to say anything about not getting hustled, but if I speak to her I would like to clear the air so to speak.

    I will just put this out there in bold so the intent of my post is crystal clear:
    When talking with a dancer on the phone about a dinner date, what is the most polite way of telling her I don't want to be her customer I want to be her friend and possibly more? Is that the easiest way to put it?

    I will list the reasons why I think she is interested in me beyond a customer, I am sure ALL of these reasons are easily refuted:
    • She has not asked me where I work, what I do for a living or how much I make
    • She is from Florida and not from Europe (small detail but I feel girls that travel to the US from Europe are more about the money)
    • She is natural, another very small detail but I would think a woman that invests a lot of money in her body through surgery would be more focused on paying off that debt.
    • When I buy a dance from her she really enjoys the massage I give her often moaning and she kisses me A LOT on my neck. I wear a nice cologne with pheromones so I assume this helps - her kisses are centralized on the application points.
    • When I asked her how old she was she did not give the standard "24" answer or play games like how old do you think I am, she was a straight shooter and said she was 33 (I am 36, not that it matters)
    • She liked the fact that I live in her neighborhood (Hells Kitchen) she said she has dated guys from Long Island before and she said she hated going out there.
    • She asked me what I do during the day, lol - I told her I work. This last point in particular gives me a little bit of confidence that she is picturing me as potential boyfriend material. In combination with the other points I made I feel like I have a better then 50/50 shot of not getting hustled here.
    I would much rather clear the air talking with her on the phone before dinner so that there is no awkwardness as well as abort on the date entirely if that is all she see in me (another customer). Any other first date advice from your perspective, kind of like do's and don'ts, I am all ears! Should I steer clear about talking about her job - I am very curious and I am sure she has some crazy stories she could share.

    Thanks!
    -John

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Just wanted to add this follow up question...

    Ever hear of the ladder theory when it comes to dating? Either he is on the ladder of guys she wants to have sex with or the friend ladder? I assume dancers have another ladder reserved for customers too, meaning she has no interest in this guy for sex or friendship, but just money. Do you think she has made up her mind in terms of what ladder to put me on or do you think sometimes there is a gray area there and she will have a much more clear picture after dinner?

    The theory is explained in detail here:

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    I think you are making too many presumptions about certain things. For instance, saying European women and women who have had plastic surgery are going to be more about he money than other strippers, well I just don't agree with that at all.

    I think in answer to your main question, you should just come right out and say that on the phone, that you are not interested in it being a customer relationship.
    Because the majority of the time dancers give their phone numbers to customers not to hook up but to establish a business relationship and she may well want to charge you to take her out to dinner (many girls on here have done that so it is quite common). She might also be offering prostitution services (just a thought).

    Secondly, why are you so intent on dating a stripper? Wouldn't dating a non-stripper be far less complex? Esp since you have so many strange preconceptions in relation to what dancers are about.

    Also, assuming that she might be considering you a potential boyfriend is going a bit too far, you have not even been on this date yet.


    I am going to refute some of the things you have said because I just can't resist:

    Many dancers enjoy giving dances and kiss customers on the neck and some dancers even pash customers as part of the dance. Also, who wouldn't enjoy being paid to receive a massage?


    The surgery thing: surgery is generally paid for up front. Why would someone who had surgery have to pay off debt? dancers generally wont need to take out a loan to get surgery.


    Not lying about her age? Big deal. I am 27 and I tell every guy who asks me my age, I have no reason to lie.

    Basically you are reading FAR too much into this and sorry but most likely she is not expecting the same thing out of it as you are.

    My predictions:

    - She will cancel your "date" at the last minute and then try to coax you into coming and seeing her in the club again. Or she may try to make your dinner date inside the club if the club has a restaurant.

    - She might turn up to the "date" and want to be paid for her time.

    Of course there is the remote possibility that she sees it as a regular date but I highly doubt it based on my own feelings about customers and what I read from the other girls here on this site that we generally wont date guys who meet us at work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Corgan View Post
    when regulars turn cheap, it's time to kill em off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysondra View Post
    You're still a vagina.
    There are many stereotypes about the industry that I work in. Sometimes they can be true but human beings are very diverse creatures and cannot be pigeon-holed into one category.

    Some of the most effortlessly beautiful, kind, intelligent, successful, motivated, driven and ridiculously hilarious women that I have ever met have been dancers. I've met the best friends that I've ever had in this industry.

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Hey John! Welcome aboard. Lets hope I can keep this to the point.

    The answer to your question, John, is you don't bring it up at all. Words are worthless in that frame. You're ruining this with thought because she's a stripper. Alarmingly, the answer to your question is to treat her like any girl you're interested in.

    You want: To be friends with this girl, possibly more.

    What you're doing: Is making her acknowledge her sacrifice financially to hang with you.

    To get what you want, take her out on this dinner. Just be yourselves, see if you get along, have a great time. If you REALLY like her and you want to progress, simply ACT out your emboldened statement by just not going to the club while she's working in support of her. If she asks why, you just tell her it's because you like her, and didn't want to make her feel awkward by going to the club while she was working.

    If you start off with that statement, you're basically telling her "If we do this, your income gets hurt so it better be worth it to you like it is to me" Does that sound fair?

    Words are worthless, and never ever illicit the value you're looking for. Wouldn't you rather just have a great time and have HER feel relieved that she won't have to have the Stripper Boyfriend Template Conversation of "Hey, I'm interested in you so I need you to not come to the club anymore while I'm working?" (thus bringing up every male insecurity about her job) simply because you just DID it?

    Think about it man.
    People are not ruled by their memories.

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Quote Originally Posted by MoreThenAJohn View Post
    Just wanted to add this follow up question...

    Ever hear of the ladder theory when it comes to dating? Either he is on the ladder of guys she wants to have sex with or the friend ladder? I assume dancers have another ladder reserved for customers too, meaning she has no interest in this guy for sex or friendship, but just money. Do you think she has made up her mind in terms of what ladder to put me on or do you think sometimes there is a gray area there and she will have a much more clear picture after dinner?

    The theory is explained in detail here:
    http://www.laddertheory.com/
    If you're reading stuff like that as a result of this date, then...you're in for a world of hurt.

    You can't break the theory with words, and leaded statements. If you can't be yourself with her and accept the fact that she may not like you as much as she may like you, you shouldn't be dating right now, especially via a Strip Club.

    Rregardless of the "ladder" you end up on, keep a clear head and realize no "ladder" is bad, you just move on and find another girl and start the cycle over.
    People are not ruled by their memories.

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Hey Mastridonicus -

    Great response, thank you very much. I agree that words are rubbish, they only convey 7% of what you feel, the rest is eye contact, body language, facial expression, voice intonation, rhythm....

    I guess if she is only interested in me as a "regular" then cutting her off at the pass is not really going to change her mind, I was just trying to set my own expectations going into the date.

    I understand where you are coming from once I have crossed that hurdle though and can appreciate what her concerns might be.

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    ^^
    btw your choice in a screen name is interesting.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Corgan View Post
    when regulars turn cheap, it's time to kill em off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysondra View Post
    You're still a vagina.
    There are many stereotypes about the industry that I work in. Sometimes they can be true but human beings are very diverse creatures and cannot be pigeon-holed into one category.

    Some of the most effortlessly beautiful, kind, intelligent, successful, motivated, driven and ridiculously hilarious women that I have ever met have been dancers. I've met the best friends that I've ever had in this industry.

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Quote Originally Posted by jaizaine View Post
    Secondly, why are you so intent on dating a stripper? Wouldn't dating a non-stripper be far less complex? Esp since you have so many strange preconceptions in relation to what dancers are about.
    :
    Of course there is the remote possibility that she sees it as a regular date but I highly doubt it based on my own feelings about customers and what I read from the other girls here on this site that we generally wont date guys who meet us at work.
    Hi Jaizaine, nice to meet you. This puzzled me a little bit, let me turn the tables. How often do you work? If you worked 6 nights a week dancing, don't you think you would have a hard time meeting anyone outside of the club? I take it you have never dated a customer, why the stereotype? Customers are people too

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    LOL ok dude if you just came on here to be told what you want to hear

    "Yes she wants to marry you right now, you need to go buy her a ring, take it on the date and propose pronto coz this is what she is expecting".

    I work 3 nights per week and I am in a long term relationship. Most dancers I work with have boyfriends already and they are not the type of guys who brag about feeling some poor dancers titties for $10 like you just did in the hustle hut section.
    Quote Originally Posted by Corgan View Post
    when regulars turn cheap, it's time to kill em off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysondra View Post
    You're still a vagina.
    There are many stereotypes about the industry that I work in. Sometimes they can be true but human beings are very diverse creatures and cannot be pigeon-holed into one category.

    Some of the most effortlessly beautiful, kind, intelligent, successful, motivated, driven and ridiculously hilarious women that I have ever met have been dancers. I've met the best friends that I've ever had in this industry.

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Quote Originally Posted by jaizaine View Post
    LOL ok dude if you just came on here to be told what you want to hear

    "Yes she wants to marry you right now, you need to go buy her a ring, take it on the date and propose pronto coz this is what she is expecting".

    I work 3 nights per week and I am in a long term relationship. Most dancers I work with have boyfriends already and they are not the type of guys who brag about feeling some poor dancers titties for $10 like you just did in the hustle hut section.
    Thanks for proving my point.

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Quote Originally Posted by jaizaine View Post
    ^^
    btw your choice in a screen name is interesting.....
    I thought so too! "John" suggests HOOKAH.
    People are not ruled by their memories.

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Quote Originally Posted by MoreThenAJohn View Post
    I take it you have never dated a customer, why the stereotype? Customers are people too
    If I may step in here, the reason many of us (including myself) do not date our customers is:

    #1: It is a fantasy world in there. Of course I'm going to pretend to like you and pretend to think you're the greatest thing since sliced bread and that you're so much better than the other "losers" that come to the club but in all honesty, I'm just trying to make money. None of that shit is real. I treat ALL my customers like that.

    #1: They don't get to see the real "us" at the club. I'm Luscious at work and if a customer is interested in dating me outside of the club they'll be in for a rude awakening when Lauren shows up for the date. Luscious is fun and bubbly and sexy. Lauren is anti social and will probably tell you the truth about everything, including the question, "Do you really like me or is it all about the money?" Customers can't date me because they don't know me. They only know Luscious and there's not much to her.

    #1: Certain boundaries have already been crossed as far as traditional dating goes. You've already seen me naked, we've already had some sort of sexual contact. What's to look forward to? Actually having sex? That's about it.

    #1: Many many strippers already have boyfriends, girlfriends, husbands, ect. We don't need anymore.


    I believe she is using a tactic on you that I use myself. I call it the "non-hustle" or the "slow-hustle". I will find a guy who's apprehnsive about spending money on me because he wants something more and I will convince him that I really do like him going as far as dinner OTC and such. I tell him everything he wants to hear and I don't bring up money ever. After a very short while, he's in the club spending money like I wanted him to and he thinks we actually have something different than all the other customers. If he starts asking for more OTC, I either claim I need to work (and if he get the hint he'll spend enough money so I don't "have to" work and I can spend more time with him), or I make plans for a very public date and pretend to very very excited about it so that he doesn't try to change the plans to something private.
    This is how I've cultivated most of my regulars.

    I think you're getting had in the same way. Of course if you ask her if this is the case, she'll get all offended and sad and say "That's horrible, I wouldn't do that to ou! I really do like you...blah blah blah."

    My advice, let this go and find a women who you didn't meet at the strip club. If she happens to be a stripper, that's fine but please please please stop trying to date strippers when you meet them at the club!

    IT'S NOT REAL!
    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand." - Bertrand Russell

    "It's just a matter of people having low self esteem and being way too easily offended." -Random Guy on a Internet Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by Katrine View Post
    Ya'll bitches need to calm down. Cerously.
    In other words: Boo-motherfucking-hoo

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    ^^
    yes but I always get confused as to whether the JOhn is the pimp or the customer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Corgan View Post
    when regulars turn cheap, it's time to kill em off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysondra View Post
    You're still a vagina.
    There are many stereotypes about the industry that I work in. Sometimes they can be true but human beings are very diverse creatures and cannot be pigeon-holed into one category.

    Some of the most effortlessly beautiful, kind, intelligent, successful, motivated, driven and ridiculously hilarious women that I have ever met have been dancers. I've met the best friends that I've ever had in this industry.

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss_Luscious View Post

    #1: They don't get to see the real "us" at the club. I'm Luscious at work and if a customer is interested in dating me outside of the club they'll be in for a rude awakening when Lauren shows up for the date. Luscious is fun and bubbly and sexy. Lauren is anti social and will probably tell you the truth about everything, including the question, "Do you really like me or is it all about the money?" Customers can't date me because they don't know me. They only know Luscious and there's not much to her.
    dunno about luscious but I effin luv lauren hehe. You hit the nail on the head here. I also love your comment about "cultivating regulars" hehe so cute.
    Quote Originally Posted by Corgan View Post
    when regulars turn cheap, it's time to kill em off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysondra View Post
    You're still a vagina.
    There are many stereotypes about the industry that I work in. Sometimes they can be true but human beings are very diverse creatures and cannot be pigeon-holed into one category.

    Some of the most effortlessly beautiful, kind, intelligent, successful, motivated, driven and ridiculously hilarious women that I have ever met have been dancers. I've met the best friends that I've ever had in this industry.

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Quote Originally Posted by MoreThenAJohn View Post
    I take it you have never dated a customer, why the stereotype? Customers are people too
    Well, to flip it, and because Jaizine is cool , Strippers are people too, and you have a whole thread based on why you have to approach this differently because she's a stripper.
    People are not ruled by their memories.

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    ^^
    thanks babe. seriously tho, I do know strippers who have dated customers but they IMO have been customers who don't really hold stereotypical views about strippers and just accept it like it's a job.
    Quote Originally Posted by Corgan View Post
    when regulars turn cheap, it's time to kill em off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysondra View Post
    You're still a vagina.
    There are many stereotypes about the industry that I work in. Sometimes they can be true but human beings are very diverse creatures and cannot be pigeon-holed into one category.

    Some of the most effortlessly beautiful, kind, intelligent, successful, motivated, driven and ridiculously hilarious women that I have ever met have been dancers. I've met the best friends that I've ever had in this industry.

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Quote Originally Posted by jaizaine View Post
    ^^
    thanks babe. seriously tho, I do know strippers who have dated customers but they IMO have been customers who don't really hold stereotypical views about strippers and just accept it like it's a job.
    It all falls apart when you feel you need to treat someone different because of the choices they make in their life that have nothing to do with you. Ya know?
    People are not ruled by their memories.

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    oh yep for sure. but i have seen it so many times. even when the boyfriend was previously or still is the strip club going type, even the regular type, suddenly having the woman you love (or whatever) strip becomes too much. I do understand tho.

    so is john the pimp or the custie, i forget?
    Quote Originally Posted by Corgan View Post
    when regulars turn cheap, it's time to kill em off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lysondra View Post
    You're still a vagina.
    There are many stereotypes about the industry that I work in. Sometimes they can be true but human beings are very diverse creatures and cannot be pigeon-holed into one category.

    Some of the most effortlessly beautiful, kind, intelligent, successful, motivated, driven and ridiculously hilarious women that I have ever met have been dancers. I've met the best friends that I've ever had in this industry.

  19. #19
    cameron_keys
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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    The john is the customer. Which I believe is rather appropriat ehere.

    And juts like Ive said the the 697567845203874501238471 guys who have asked this before you....ASK HER. Instead of asking random strangers on the internet" does she really like me".....

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Quote Originally Posted by cameron_keys View Post
    The john is the customer. Which I believe is rather appropriat ehere.

    And juts like Ive said the the 697567845203874501238471 guys who have asked this before you....ASK HER. Instead of asking random strangers on the internet" does she really like me".....
    BUSTED! YOU DIDN'T READ!

    HAHAHAHAHA (can't blame you!)

    He's not asking if he should ask her, he's asking what the most polite way is.

    heheh.

    No offense John, really, we get this daily. I really try to remain vigilant in my honest responses because I hope someone reads them and gets their answer pre-thread.
    People are not ruled by their memories.

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Quote Originally Posted by MoreThenAJohn View Post

    She told me to call her Monday night to remind her about Tuesday night.
    -John

    Dead givaway that this is business: She told you to call her on Monday to remind her about Tuesday. If a guy/girl is really interested in dating someone, they don't need to be reminded that they have a date on a certain day.

    She wants you to remind her about Tuesday so she doesn't confuse you with another "John" that she has a "date" with on Thursday.

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Well since you think an extra $10 to fondle a dancer's breasts is money well spent I don't think you are worthy of her. There's no words you can say because you're an opportunist who should probably hire a hooker instead. You already call yourself a john so why pretend you're not?
    “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.” - ECKHART TOLLE

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Hey James -

    Yeah that is definitely fishy and why I have my suspicions. I hear all of the girls about not trying to approach this differently but this is not a normal pickup and there are serious trust issues from both sides. I am trying to keep an open mind but will remain cautious until I can confirm this is legit or not, guess I find out what her intentions are when I talk to her Monday, or more then likely leave her a message and hear back from her.

    Why do I want to date a stripper? I am not going out of my way to date one, like I said I only go about once every other month, but if I get a good vibe from one then I will take a shot, why the hell not? If she is not interested she can say she has a boyfriend, kids, any of the number of other excuses you have used in the past.

    For all of the girls that have boyfriends, girlfriends, husbands, etc...yeah I get it you are there to work and make money and don't want to be hit on. I imagine the single girls that work a lot of hours are open to the possibility and while they keep their guard up against all the douche bags and losers that may visit where they work, they realize normal stable guys could stop in as well.

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimist View Post
    Well since you think an extra $10 to fondle a dancer's breasts is money well spent I don't think you are worthy of her. There's no words you can say because you're an opportunist who should probably hire a hooker instead. You already call yourself a john so why pretend you're not?
    That was a different club and a different girl. I was not bragging or anything remotely like that, I thought it was an interesting line to use, one that I had never heard before. Usually its allowed, or you need to upgrade your service - first time I got a regular dance and was given the option for $10 more. I am not ashamed of it either, I'm a tit man, what can I say?

    And my name is John, my handle is a play on words, thought that was obvious.

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    Default Re: flip side: avoiding the hustle

    Maybe it's time for an FAQ sticky'ed thread.

    See this thread first though John:



    It will probably help.
    You can't love something you think is flawless - me


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  5. Pink Side = Prude Side
    By Sh0t in forum General Board
    Replies: 144
    Last Post: 07-25-2005, 07:04 PM

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